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Welcome to deep into the pages
Your shortcut to being well informed
Today we're doing a deep dive into a really influential book
Daniel age
Pinks
Ridrive the surprising truth about what motivates us
It definitely cause didiururb when it came out absolutely
And our mission here is really the unpack its core ideas
Because they challenge well pretty much everything we tivtes us
It gets us going
What drives us hopefully
It helps you get a better handle on yourself in it the world around you is fascinating stuff
And we should probably start with these a couple of experiments
Right they're kind of mind blowing almost unbelievable
When you first here about them
Yeah definitely they happened decades ago
And he think they would have just changed everything instantly
But at h
They didn't quite catch on right away
Not at all so tell us so the the first one hello
Right
Harry harlo
It's nineteen forty nine
He's a psychologist
And he sets up this experiment
It's eight racist monkeys simple set up
Put ts in in room with the mechanical puzzle
Okay like a little contraption
They have to figure out
Exactly
But here's the key part no be teaches them
How and there is zero rewards
No food
No affection
Nothing like that
So what had ignred no the monkeys they just start fiddling with the puzzles
They seem really focused
They're actually enjoying it
And they saw them really fast
Too often and less than a minute
Wow
Does that a curiosity
It seemed like it in trinsic motivation
Right there
But then harder of things okay
Let's see
What happens of i reward them
So he tries to giving them reasons
When they sove it and they got even faster right i mean reasonon that's what you think
But no
Their performance actually got worse
They started making more areas
They solved it slower
Ah the food rewards somehow disrupted their focus their so h they're in trinsic drive that is completely backwards to how we usually think about rewards bizarre is it
And it doesn't stop there
That's forward twenty years
Nineteen
Nineteen sixty nine
It word dessy is a psychology grads student at the time
He does a similar thing
But with humans this time college students and a sumar puzzle cube okay those interlocking block puzzles
That's one so he gets students devised in the groups session one
Everyone just plays with the puzzle
Session two
One group gets pay for each puzzle
They solve the other group doesn't standard incentive ves up right one then come session three
对对对
Crucially he tells the paid group sorry no more money for this
The other group still gets nothing
And then he just know leaves him alone for bit observing what they do
What did the paid group do
Once the money stopped so pretty acstop playing with the puzzle
They spent nificantly less free time on it
They pared to the group
That was never paid even less time
That they themselves had spent in the first sessbefore money
Money ever mentioned so paying them actually kill their interest
Once the payment was gone
Exactly they can that external rewards especially money can undermine that innate intrinsic interest
People have in an activity
Its sort of flips se switch turns play into work
These are powerful findings
Hello
Dussse
You think this would have shaken up management practices
Everywhere you would
But pink argues
This is the core problem
There's this huge gap
This fundamental mismatch
Between what science like this knows about motivation
And what most businesses actually do
So we're stuck
We're largely running on an old operating system help pink puts it
He calls it motivation two poino
It's that classic care and stick approach
External rewards for good stuff
Punivation for bad stuff
Where is that even come from well he kind of evolved first there was motivation one point out
Just there ic survival drives food
Water shelter
Then as societies got more complex
Especially within dustrial revolution
Motivation two point o emerged think frederick
Winds Low
Taylor and scientific management ah h tailorism time in motion studies efficiency exactly taylor saw workers almost like cogs in a machine
Standardized the task figure out the one best way
And then use rewards and punishments to make sure
People follow the instructions
Precisely it treats humans as well basically horses moved them with a cruncher carrot or a sharper stick
And i guess for a while for very routine factory work
Maybe that seemed effective
It probably did or seem to it's simple
It's measurable
But pin's argument is that this system motivation two point out is just increasingly incompatible the modern world
It doesesn't it
It
How we orgize things anymore
How we think or even how we actually do our work now okay
Let's break that down
How is it incomanible with how we organize think about open source
是的 对的
Huge projects
Wikipedia
Linux
Firefox
A patchy web server
These are world class products built largely by well unpaid volunteers
Motivation two point o says people only work for extraordinal rewards
Primarily money
How does it explain millions of hours
Poured into these projects for free
It can't really what drives them
Them paying points to things like enjoyment based in trinsic motivation
It's the fun of the challenge
The satisfaction of mastering something complex or maybe desire to contcontue view to give a gift back to the community
It completely bypasses the care and stick model
And it's not just tech right you mentioned purpose maximizers
Right we're seeing more organizations that aren't solely profit maximizers
Which is the standard motivation two point o settle think about four benefit corporations be core nnprofits
Its with own incomcome streams
Their primary goal isn't just shareholder value
It's achieving some kind of social or environmental purpose profit might be necessary
But it's not the only point
Their tivation two poino struggles to understand these models okay
So it clashes with how we organize what about
How we think even economic is shifting the old model was homo
Economics s this idea of humans is perfectly rational
Purely
Self interested a more predictizing calculators
Which lets be ononus nobody actually is exactly behavior economic showed we're predictably irrational
But pink suggests were also predictably transcented
Economists are starting to talk about homeo economicous maturia more refined view acknowledging that intrinsic motivation fairness purpose these things matter deeply even in economic decisions
We leave high pain jobs for meaning
We spend fortunes on hobbies
That doesn't fit the simple reward punishment calculation right we care about more than just the bottom line personally and sometimes professionally and the third incompatibility
How we do our work
This one's crucial a lot of twenty cenal work was algorithmic
You follow a set procedure al script formula think assembly line work basic accounting data entry motivation two point of the care and stick k work okay you're at least not horrible for that because you just need compliance follow the steps s get the reward precisely
But so much twenty first century is hhoristic
It requires figuring things out experimenting creating something new solving
Novel problems there isn't a script think our indeed design strategy complex problem solving
Even many service jobs require creative solutions on the fly
And for that kind of work for hurisstic work parargues the carrson insticks of motivation two poino aren't just ineffective
They can be actively harmful
Devastating
He calls it
Devastating that's strong
How so well this leads directly into what he calls the seven deadly flaws of the care and stick approach
These are the ways ves motivation to point out actually backfires
Especially we're dealing with anything beyond simple routine tasks
Okay
Let's hear them
What's the first flaw
It can extinguish intrinsic motivation
We already saw this with harlolo's monkeys and desy students offering an external reward
Especially unexpected
If then reward
If you do this
Then you'll get some something that can suck the inherent joy out of an activity
Like turning play into work
As he said
Exactly pink calls it the soyer effect
After tom sawyer tricking his friends into paying him to whitewash offence
He turned his shore into their desirable activity rewards can do the opposite
There was another study with presschoolers to enjoy drawing
One group was told beforehand theyd get a good player award ribbon for drawing
Another group got the award as a surprise
Afterwards a third group got no award
And the ones who expected the award two weeks later that group showed significantly less interest in drawing
During free playtime compared to the other two groups
The expected reward basically tainted their natural enjoyment
对the surprise reward
However didn't have that negative effect
So it's the contingent expected reward
That's the probe
That's the critical distinction
Pink makes okay
Second flaw carrots and sticks can diminish performance wait diminih
I thought the whole point was to improve performance
That's the conventional with them
But remember harlest monkeys getting worse
There's more evidence
Dan
Ari and some colleagues did a study in madurai india
They gave people tasks involving things like motor skills
Creativity concentration
And they fered different levels of reward small medium or really large pay equivalent to several months pay for some participants okay
So the ones offered the massive reward must have knocked out of the part
Look they performed the worst of all three groups
The pressure of the high rewards seem to interfere with their cognitive ababilities
And not not an isolated finding okay school school eeconomicreviewed fifty fifone studies of corporate payer performance plans
Their conclusion was pretty blunt
We find that financial incentives can result in a negative impact on overall performance
It just blows up the standard management playbook
Wow Okay
What's fuone number three they can crash creativity this times into the huristic work idea
When you offer a reward
You can for speed up a specific outcome
It tends to narrow our focus
We concentrate only on getting the reward
Which blocks out pooerful vision experimentation
The kind of divergent thinking needed for a creative solutions is there an experiment for that too the classic one is the candle problem
You're given a candle
A box of thm tax and some matches your job is to fix the candle to the wall
So the wax doesn't trip onof the table below
嗯 Ok
Party do it
The trick is to realize the box holding the tax can be used as a platform
You empty the box tagged to the wall
Placed the candle inside it
It requires overcoming functional fixieness seeing the boxes more than just a container
啊 Clever
So what happened with rewards psychologist sam
Glesberg time two groups
One was just asked to solve it
The other was offered cash rewards for finishing faster than average the incentitized group took on average three and half minutes longer to find the solution
The reward narrow
They're thinking so rewards make you less creative not more for problems like that yes and trees ammobiillet harvard found similar things with artists
The commission work was consistently rated as less creative
Than they're non commissioned work worrying about the external rewards seemed to stifle their artistry
Okay
Flow for this is grim
It gets worse carrets
Insticks can encourage unethical behavior
When the main goal is just to hit a target to get the reward or avoid punishment
Some people will inevitably take shortcuts
Think about sales quote as leading to pushing unnecessary products on customers like its c years years sts go gogoexacactly rr's focus on massive revenue goals encourage widespread accounting fraud and rupinto engineers knew about the fuel tank danger
But a cost benefit analysis focusing on potential lawsuit payouts versus recall costs let them diskip the fix goals titito to words can narrow focus so much that ethics get sidelline paint contrast this with intrinsic motivation
Where as he puts it the only route to the destination is the hiirroad
Because the work itself is the reward make sense
What's next flaw five they can crowd out good behaviour
This can subtled but important remember that is really dayccare that dy they had a problem with parents picking up kids late
So they introduce a fine for latiness
Thinking it would deter parents team's logical did it work the opposite happened latess actually increased why the fine turned what was previously a social or moral obligation
Being considered of the teachers time into a simple market transaction
It became okay
I can just pay for the extra service
The intrinsic motivation to be punctual was crowded out by the extrinsic penalty
So the fine removed the guilt or social presinteinteresting flaty
So six carroin sticks can become addictive
People get used to the reward
And then they needed to just to maintain the same level of effort
嗯
Russian economiand anon suoverall model
This showing how reward create expectations and depenpency
Y neneurroscience adds to this fri study es our brain's response to monetary rewards looks disturbingly similar to its response to addictive substances like cocaine
Yix like needing a bigger hit of reward each time potentially
Yes it creates a cycle
Where the focus shifts from the activity to chasing the next reward and finally number seven they can foster a short term thinking
So if the reward is tied to achieving a specific near term goal like quarterly earnings
People will focus entirely on hitting that number sometimes at the expense of long term health are innovation companies might cut rne spending to boost this quarter's profits
Even though it hurts them down the line
The reward encourages taking the quickkest path to the pay off not investing in mastery or sustainable growth
Okay
Those seven flaws paint a pretty damming picture of motivation
Two point out especially from modern work
But surely carrits and sticks ks ren't always bad
Pink agrees they're not universally terrible
He clarifies they can be effective but primarily for routine algorithmic tasks
But kind of work it's not inherently interesting
Doesn't require much creativity or problem solving
And wewe're following the steps is key
Like data entry or maybe simple assembly work exactly stuff with the main goal is just to get it done
But even then pink suggests three practices to make them less damaging
First offer a clear rationale explain
Why this boring task is necessary
How would connect to a larger purpose
Second acknoknoleledge of the task is boring
Just admitting it validates the persons experience and shows empathy don't pretend it's fascinating
When it's clearly not honesty helps and third allow people autonomy over
How they complete the task even in routine work
If people have some control over their method
Their timing
Their environment
It helps maintain a sense of self direction so even for boring stuff context and autonomy matter
But what about the creative hurosc work
If
If then rewards are so dangerous
There what's the alternative
This is where pain introduces now that rewards instead of seeying
If you finish this project
Then you'll get a bonus
You wait until after the project is done
Especially it went well
And then you offer an unexpected reward
What have that report ts an fantastic
Now that it's done
The company wants to give you a spotbonus as thanks exactly or now that you nail that presentation
Let's go up for a nice team lunch to celebrate
嗯
有有没有没有
The key is that
It's not contingent beforehand
It's offered after the fact primarily as recognition and possible feedback not is the reason for doing the work
So it feels more like genuine appreciation than a transaction right
It provides useful feedback you did great work and acknowledged effort without high jacacking the intrinsic motivation for the task itself 是有
But there's a crucial caviet
Which is if you start giving now that rewards too predictably like every single time someone finishes a project
They get more if into expected if then entitlements and people's minds
Then you're right back in the same trap eneeds to feel genuinely spontaneous and appreciative
Not just a delayed if then a delvate three ance then okay a motivation two point no is flawed especially for totoy's world especispecies to the upgrade right edevvate three point exactly 你的这个motivation three point no was pin's framework for understanding this third drive the one beyond basic survival one point and an external reward punishments two poino
It's about our innate tendency towards seeking out novelty and challenges
Extending our capacity ties exploring and learning
And this leads a different kind of behavior
Yes
What he calls type eybehavior
Think think i for intrinsic this behaviors fuelled by inherent satisfaction
But the internal desires and motivation three point notaps into which what letrasts with typecks behavior which is fuelled by extransic desires
The rewards and punishments of motivation two point out
So typi is about internal drive tytypaces
About external rewards is one better being argue strongly
The typi is more effective than the long run
Especially for complex creative work typii tend to achieve more have a higher sofestesteam better relationships and greater overall well being
And crucially
He says type i behaviors learned in developments may not born
And it's renewable
That doesn't run out
Like extransic rewards can okay
So how do we foster this type i behavior
What are the components of motivation three point o pink identifies three key elements
Autonomy
Mastery and purpose these of the nutrients type by behavior needs to flourish right
Let's take them one by one first up autonomy
What does that mean in this context
Autony is are in an eight desire to be self directed
To feel like we have control over our own lives and actions
It's not necessarily independence are working alone
It's about having volition acting with choice
Feeling like you're the driver not just a passenger
Precisely and the research backing this is huge dc and right and self determination
Theies built around this studies consistently show that
When people feel more more tonomous ous
They demonstrate greater conceptual understanding better academic performance
More persistence higher productivity
Let's burn out
Paces on any specific examples in the workplace
Los one study looked at workers in an investment bank not exactly a few good environment typically
But managers who are more autonomy supportive meaningly listened offer choices gave meaningful feedback
Had employees with much higher jobs satisfaction better perforforance another another stuful ful cornefound that businebusineses granting workers more autonomy grew four times faster
And had only one third detturnel over compared to more controlling business four times faster
That's massive
How does this look in practice
What one radical example is are awe the results only work environment pioneered at best buys corporate office
And used by companies like media that basically there are no schedules
No mandatory office time people work when in where they want the only thing that matters is getting the work done
Achieving the results that sounds chaotic
Does it actually work
According to the companies that use it yes
They report increased productivity lower stress better engagement
It forces of focus on output not just presence another famous example is giving employees dedicated time for passion project
Oh
Like googles twenty percent time
Exactly google famously allowed engineers to spend twenty percent of their time on projects
They chose themselves
Gmail
Google news adsent susupoponeadmany big innovations came out of that time
Three m had a similar of fifteen perctime time policy
Even earlier has were posted notes came from technally from an engineineboooolagging time for his own idea
So giving people control over their time and tasks
Fuels
Innovation
It seems to at asasi
The the sofrerea company has something called fedex days engineers get twenty four hours to work on any project
They want then they have to deliver something overnight presenting into the company
It's a burst of intense autonomous creativity pink breaks to stand further right the forties
Yes
A hopeful framework autonomy isn't all or nothing you can have autonomy over your task
Which you actually do like the twenty percent time
Yeah time when you do it like our o we or moving away from rigid billiable hours in law
Your technique
How you do it and your team think you do it with technique
That your team think of exampl's customers service reaps their famous for not using scripts they have autonomy over
How they solve the customers problem leading to legendary service stories or jebluse home erering program for reservation agents they work from home
Largely setting their own process within certain parameters and team autonomy
Some companies allow teams input on herring members like whole foods wl gore and assocites the makers of gortext is famous for its lattest structure
Where people choose which projects in teams to join based on their commitment even google its engineers form small self directed grouplets for projects giving people choice in these areas tapped into that fundamental need for autonomy
Okay
Autonomy is element one
What's the second element of motivation three point now mastery this is our ina urge to get better and better at something that matters to us or motivation two point o focused on compliance just follow the rules
Motivation three point o aims for engagement and engagement is the pathway to mastery getting really good at something they you wanting to get really good at it
This connects deeply with mhaallei six mmahaaly's concept of flow
Oh Yes
Being in the zexexactly state of complete absorption
Were challenges and skills are perfectly balanced
You're so focused time seems to disappear goals are clear
Feedback is immediate
Six at mahali observe this and artist athlete surgeons even cooks that intense eye on the object look it's the optimal experience
And it's intrinically rewarding can organizations actually foster flow pike gives the example of green cargo a swedish logistics company
They trained engagers on flow principles helping employees find that state in their daily work and reported increased profitability as result t intellectually challenge scientists tend to file more patterns
It's about fighthat viweet spot
You know a chen even designed video games like flow specific gly ly induce this state
So how do you find out sweet spot through what pink calls
Goldlocks
Tasks
Tasks are not too hard
Not too easy
But just right
If it's too easy
You get bored it sounhard you get anxious goldlogu's tasks
Ftch you slightly beyond your current ababilities making them engaging and conducive to flow in skill development
Good managers and good work environments
Ments provithese kinds of challenges
Yes
It sounds like a relates back to that soil effect idea
But maybe in a positive way
Yes
The positive soil fact finding ways to tern routine work into something more engaging more mastery oriented pink mentioned a study of hospital cleaners
Who started taking on extra tasks interacting more with patients and staff reframing their jobs not just as clestering
But is contributing to healing their jobs at as faction and their perception of their own skills increased dramatically
They found mastery in unexpected places
So how does one actually achieve masty pink has some laws for this right
He does three laws
嗯
First mastery is a mindset
This draws heavily uncaroled deax's research
She contrasts the fixed mindset believing your abilities are a need and unchangeable with the growth mindset believing abilities can be developed through dedication in hard work
And the growth mindset is key for absstery
Absolutely if you believe you can get better
You embrace challenges
You persist
Your setbacks
You see effort the path ath mamastery you ursue learning goals
Not just performers goals
It fosters what duwect calls a mastery oriented response to difficulty think about concepts like great perseverance and passion for long term goals
That's pure growth mindset in action okay mindset is number one
What's the second law mastery is a pain
This is important
The path to getting really good in time
It isn't always fun in flow dates
It requires effort often intense oftimes tedious effort paink highlights
Androzerics's work on delilired practice
That's the ten thousand hours of real guy
Right though it's more new ones than that right the new ones is key
It's not just putting in time
It focused effortful practice aims specifically at improving weaknesses often guided by feedback
It can be growling
Think of a lead musicians practicing scales for hours or athletes
Drilling fundamentals
Endlessly it requires discipline and persistjowhen is is not enjoyable in the moment
Julia
Serving dark j said
Something like being a professional is doing the things you love to do
On the days
You don't feel like doing them so great and delibrary practice
Even when it hurts
Got it and the third law mastery is an asient tote and asa tote is a gline
That a curve approaches
But never quite touches
Panky uses this is a metaphor true mastery is impossible to fully achieve you can always get better like the horizon
You can always approach it
That you never reach it
Exactly think of a master artist like says on always driving never fully satisfy or tiger wood constantly refining his swing
Even it is peak the motivation
The joy isn't in reaching some final destination of perfect
Because that doesn't exist
对对对对对
The joy is in the pursuit itself that continuous striving the journey towards that ever receiving horizon
That's who keeps type by individuals engaged autonomy mastery
It's what's the third pillar of motivation
Three point of purpose
This is our deep seated yearning to connect our actions to conneger our ourselves
Why contribute to make a difference
It's about doing what we do in the service of a cause greater than just our own self interest the why behind ind what and how precisely being talks about a shift from pure profit maximumazation to purpose maximization
He argues us a growththunderstorm of purpose driven by demographics two big groups
First baby boomers hitting their sixties in beyond many are looking back
Looking forward and asking what's my legacy
How can i contribute there's less focus purely on accumulating more stuff and more on meaning
Second you have millenniel's agensey and during the workforce and studies
Consistently show they prioritizze purpose impact and the ability to give back through their work
Often valuing it as much as even more than salary alone
So different generations converging on this need for purpose
How does this manifest in the business world
Pink points to a few areas
First in goals we talk about four benefit organizations b core coo ups
There are hundreds of millions of people involved in corporpertive enterprises worldwide tom meass shoes is a classic example
A four profit company with giving at its core
Their entire business model is built around a purpose beyond just selling shoes profit serves the purpose rather than being the sol purpose
Exactly
Then there are words
The language we use matters think about that harvard n ba oath starting with serve the greater good or gary hamel urging businesses to embrace higher ideals like honor
Truth Love
Justice and beauty
Even robert right simple pronounn test do employees say they when talking about the company or we a sense of we often signals a connection to a shared purpose and the third area policies
Right policies moving beyond just compliance sped checklist
Ethics designed to avoid punishment instead creating policies
The genuinely foster the transic motivation towards ethical behavior in purpose for example studies on pro social spending suggest giving employees influence over the company's charial donations can boost theyhavenss ss and well being more effectively than a personal bonus of the amount t tataps into that desire to contribute letting people direct funds to causes they care about enhances their own sense of purpose at work
It seems so
And the impact of having a purpose motive is profound remember duessey
Rhyan
They did another study with colleagues
Tracking college graduates
They look at students who pursued intrinsic p poposchools
Things like personal growth
Community contribution relationships
Versuthose who pursued extrinsic profit goals
Wealth fame image
And what did they find after graduation the students who had pursued purpose calls reported significantly higher levels of satisfaction well being and lower levels of anxiety and depression
是不是
But here's the kicker
The students who pursued profit goals
Even when they successfully achieve them like getting richer famous showed no increasing well being
Compared to when they were in college
In fact
Some even reported more anxiety in depression
Wow
So getting the extrinsic reward didn't actually make them happier or more fulfilled
Exactly it popoererfulillulustrate pinks point
Even when we do get what we need
It's not always what we need
Purpose seems to be a fundamental human need for deep lasting satisfacprotion
It is important
Necessary even
But it might not be the primary driver of our best work or our deepepest well being this really ties everything together
The flaws of motivation two pointhe popoof of autonomy mastery and purpose and motivation three point
Uh brings us right back to that central theme
The huge persistent mismatch between what science knows about human motivation and what so many organizations actually practice pink argument is that the real secret to high performance engagement and frankly a more fulfilling life lies in tapping into this third drive
It's about about ururturing our nate desires for autonomy mastery and purpose
Absolutely it's not about many opatigpeople people with external controls
But about creating environments
Where about natural inclation to learn
And you conttrary interrect their own lives can fluishsh
And you know these ideas while back by science also feel intuitively right
Don't they
They resonate with something deeper
I think so suggest these truth confirm what we already know in our hearts
The humans aren't meant to be passive compliant
Calgs were designed to be active engaged creators and contributors
So the call to action for you
The listener is not be to reflect on us
Where in your own life
Your work
Your
Your bbby youyoulearning ning can learan more into autonomy mastery and purpose
How can you cultivate these not just for yourself
But maybe foster them in others around you
And that final thought pink leaves us with is quite profound tanging it back to our very nature
He suggests that embracing these principles isn't just a better way to run a business or motivate people
It's more fundamental
Yes
He quotes others suggesting that human nature if it ever realizes itself will do so by becoming more autonomous so fostering autonomy
Mastery and purpose isn't just good strategy
It's perhaps an affirmation of our humanity
It's about enabling ourselves and others to become more fully human
That's a powerful
I did to end on truly recognizing and enabling that inner drive it really is a lot to think about absolutely will thank you for listening to this deep dive into daniel pink drive drive
And really truly motivate us
And really hope you found these insiit's useful
Maybe sparksome ideas for your own journey
Hope it was helpful
Until next time see you
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