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Right right woken back to the dededive and uh
You know listeners senin a really interesting batch of sources for us to dig into this time
Yeah
It's a pretty fascinating question
They'all centered on who is government
It seems pretty simple as book
But you know it get really interesting pretty quick
We've got excerpts from michael leouis 's book by that same title who is government
Right paired with chapters from a bunch of other authors
And they all explore you know different aspects of what it's actually like to work in government
Yeah
I thought
Though was really interesting about the material
You said you know
Really avoid you know all the usual political debates and stuff
It doesn't get bog down in policy jargaon
And like really dives into the personal stories of the people
You know who are actually doing the work
Yeah Yeah
And that's exactly why we're doing this deep dive
We're not here did just you know rehash the same old talking points
Yeah
To really understand yeah
You know how government works by you know understanding the experiences of the people
Who are actually a part of it
So listeners get ready for some surprising insights into what government really means
Yeah
I think you'll definitely gain a new perspective art
Let's time right in so in chapter five
The introduction of michael lewis's book
He asked this kind of basic question who is government
Yeah
But like you're saying that deceptively simple question is kind of the perfect place to start
Yeah
Why do you think that
Well
I think it immediately pushes us to go beyond this abstract idea of government
You know right as one big entity
It forces us to think about you know the actual humans
People with motivations and skills right
And you know the challenges
They face within the system
Yeah
I love that he actually calls government this journalistic gold bine
Yeah
That's sit out to me too
I really think he means by that
What we think about leouis 's work in generate
He's really good at finding these incredibly compelling human stories
Yeah
In these you know large complex systems right and government is like the ultimate example of that
But even at that scale
It's ultimately just you know a collection of individual stories and a lot of them go on told
So his point curcuriosity is key
Here here
Yeah
It takes real effort to kind of dig beneath the surface
And find those narrative ves the stuff
That most people don't even know is happening right
And you know speaking your stories
Let's move on to chapter six it's a no chapter titled continued who is government and right away
Lewis tells this amazing story about well it takes place right after trumkets elected
Yeah
It's a really interesting
Look at you know that whole transition of power
Yeah
So he talks about how prepredent trumpmpyou know basically fires as entire transition team
And then appoints rick perry as setary of energy
Even though perry you know had actually suggested getting rid of the department entirely which is wild
Yeah
And then during pery's confirmation hearing
You know he admits that he doesn't really know what the department of energy
Even does right right
Which is crazy right
Because they handle stuff lake
You know our nuclear arsenal energy production
And even things like weather forecasting
Yes so this kind of whole experience
Where it really sparks leouis 's own journey into auditing government agencies
Yeah
It's what leads him to spend all this time
Just kind of you know wondering around the energy and commerce departments
Just seeing what he can find yeah
And it was a total wake up call for him
He describes being so surprised to learn about all the sencentral work going on all this vital stuff
But it was just completely invisible to the public right
And you know that whole experience eventually let him to write the fifth risk
Which you know listeners you should definitely check out
If he haven't already
And then of course that book public to wwashington post series also called who is government
Yeah
It's really kind of battling to think about you have all these incredible stories playing out
Yeah
All these really crucial things
But they just fly under the radar
Most people have no idea
Why do you think that is what i think leouis raises is somereally interesting points about that memean
You know it takes a lot of resources to do that kind of indept investigative reporting and news outlets just don't always have that kind of money to throw around
Yeah
And then there's the fact that government agencies themselves they're not really in the business of self promotion
You know yeah
The kind of prioritize discretion over getting their name out there
Yeah
I think got a big part of it
And of course
Let's not forget about the negaostereotypes
That people have about government workers yes
Faceless bureaucrat
Yeah
You know inefficient lazy all that stuff
But what so interesting about loses account is that you know he found the exact opposite to be true
Yeah
For the most part
You know he met all these dedicated people who were really passionate what they do
Yeah
So what would you say is louis 's main point here you know the big take away about how we tend to see government versus
How it actually is well
I think he's really trying to highlight this huge disconnect
You know between this perception of government as this like big slow kind of monolithc thing and the reality
Which is that it's full of people who are working incredibly hard to keep things running
You they're doing all these vital jobs right and a lot of us just don't realize it
And he argues you know that gap in understanding it's a real problem for jomoc okay
So moving on to chapter seven
Lewis introduces this metaphor of government as a caneneran in the coal mmm yeah
And the person he focuses on here is christopher mark from the department of labor um
Can you tell us a bit about him
And how he fits into this metaphor
So christopher mark he's this perfect example of an unsung hero within government yeah
And that canaria metaphor
It's about these individuals who are out there kind of waron the front lines in these areas
That most people don't even think about right
But they're the first to see danger right or to recognize critical issues
That could become really serious of no one notices
So it's going to highlighting that human element right best like it's all these individuals who are trying to make a real difference
Even if they face obstacles along the way
Yeah
And it really pushes us to reconsider how we think about government
You know what if we stop thinking of it as this single faaceless thing and started to see it as this you know collection of individuals who were committed to serving the public right right
I think that shift in perspective
You know could lead to a lot more appreciation for how challenging our work
Often is yeah
I think so too so in chapter eight lewis talks about recogninition
Really really llack of it that these feal al eloloyees often receive
And he brings up these awards called the sames the service americamericmemeals
Yeah Yeah
Can you explain with those are all about so the samies they were created by this group called the partnership for public service right
And the whole purpose is to acknowledge and celebrate
You know outstanding achievevements by people who work in federal government
It's all about
You know recognizing the importance of service
So so we all know doesn't usually get a lot of fn faare so these metals they try to change that
But even with these awards
You know it seems like getting nominated is still hard
Yeah
And you know even when people do get recognized
It seems like their achievements get downplylike
You have that example of the h nuclear waste cleanup manager
Oh Yeah
That's a great example
So this guy oversaw this massive project right
This huge nuclear waste cleanup
And it gets finished years
I had a schedule right and under budget the project
I mean that's pretty remarkable
But when he was asked about it
His response was just well
You know i just managed the project which is create
It's so understted it know
And it really shows how a a lot of the work with government
It's not about the individual
It's just about getting things done
Yeyeyeah and chachair also makes this interesting point
That you know democracy isn't really designed to put individuals in the spotlight right
Okay anyleararmore about chchstopher
Marmark know know wwent to prinston and his father was an engineer
Who built got the cathedrals
Yeah
It's not exactly the background youd expect for someone working on you know coal mine safety right
But it shows how you can't really make assumptions about who's going to end up in these important roles absolutely and despite that kind of of unexpected path
You know his work developing those safety standards
It's undoubtedly saved lives right
Countless lives probably
And you know it's interesting that lewis makes this comparison between his work
And you know his father building these lasting structures
He really emphasizes the lasting impact
Chris for maris had even if most people don't know his name
Yeah
That's a great point
All right so chapter nine brings us to this new metaphor the sental
And we're introduced toronled e walters who works at the national cemetery administration
How does he embodied this idea of government as a protector so casey step
She's the author of this chapter
And she kind of reframes our whole understanding of government
Here she calls it a sentinel
Which based it means a protector right someone who's watching over us
Keeping us safe
Yeah
And she gugues that acts as a steward of these values
That are important to us as a society
And ronled waters through his work at the nca
He perfectly represents that right
He make sure that everyone buried in the national cemetery is treated with dignity and honor exactly
It's about preserving their memory
Ensuring that they're sacrifices and forgotten so yousasaying shshe's drawing a connection between this very specific role managing cemeteries and this bigger idea of government as this caretaker of our shared values
Exactly
But she's also realistic
You know right she acknowledges that the reality of our values
You know the data day stuff it doesn't always live up to that ideal
Yeah
But she's still mathis this powerful argument that you know government ulultimately reflelection of we are
Are
And then you know by recognizing the dedication of people like walters
We can help build trust in government
And hold it accountable right okay
So in chapter ten we continue with thoronold waters
And we learn about this incredibly moving story about staff surgeon robert faarious junior can you tell us about that yeah
Really shows the senteninal metaphor in action yep
So staff surgeon faiiremains yes
We really finally identied after all these years decades yeah
And he was given a proper barrial with full military honers
It's a powerful testament to the nca 's commitment yeah and walters in his team
They made sure that even after all that time
He was treated with the respect
He deserve yeah
And
And it's pretty amazing that the nca consistently gets these incredibly high customer satisfaction scores yeah
They're even higher than a lot of private companies
Um
What do you think that tells us about waters leadadanwhat shows how particularly is you know how he's committed to the highest standards right in every aspect of their work
Whether it's something you know seemingly small
Like cleaning the headstones or understanding how the ground settles over time
He really cares about getting it right yeah
And that dedication it's contagious
It's created a culture of excellence within the whole nca
And he's also sphere headed some really innovative programs
Yeah
Like the veterans legacy memorialright right
Know which is this online platform where people can share store
Woris about veveans
It's a much more personal way to remember them
And then there's the apprenticeship program for homeless veterans
Which gives them real support you know and helps them get back on their feet
It's clear that waters is all about making a tangible difference in people's lives
It's not about him getting recognition
Exactly it underscores this idea that you know success isn't always about being in the headline
It's about making a real impact
Okay
So chapter eleven
The searchers 好的好的
Or moving on to nasas's jet propulal laboratory
What does dave eggers have to say about who government is in this chapter
So egors
He focuses on these researchers at jpl right like tifany
Catitia
A bertrin
Medicine
Vanassabeili and cameron
And he uses them as examples of the people who actually make up government right
And he is this really really cool metaorory
He compares their quest for knowledge
Their work exploring space to all the unscseen
But crucial work being done in government agencies all over the country
It's about shifting our attention away from the institution itself
And towards the individuals who are driving these effort yeah
And focusing on their passions
Know there's struggles there everyday work right
It's all about reminding us
That government is powered by people
People who are driven to make progress
So in chapter twelve we continue with jpo and nasa
And
And things get really exiting right
Because we start talking about the possibility of discovering extra trarestrial yeah
It's mine blowing right yeah
So the chapter talks about the nancy to the romans space telescope
But which has being built right now
And it's going to use this really advanced technology to block out the light from stars
Yes
Star light suppression
So we can actually see planets
Orbitthose stars
Ars Ah
Which you know is how we might find evidence of life
And the chapter also talks about nancy grace woman herself yeah
Who they called the mother of hubble yeah
She was a real visionary yeah
And her work was essential to yeah
Gewas we might find astronomy of the ground and developing ways to to find planets outside her solar system
And even though a lot of people don't know her name
You ah
She made all that possible yeah
She is amazing
And the chapter also goes into this interesting discussion about the different approaches to blocking star light
Which is a sehotograph
Which is what the roman telescope is going to use yeah
And then there's this other idea of using a star shade
Which is a separate spacecraft that would fly information with the telescope and basically create and arleficcoal eclipyeah blocking the light from the star
It's really cool yeah
So amazing
To think about all this incredible engineering right all these innovations that are happening
Because of government funding yeah
And the chapter really emphasizes
You know how seriously nasa takes its responsibility to use taxpayer money wisely right though though always trtrying to balance ambition with budget realities and the chapter ends with this really beautiful idea that nasa is in the inspiration business
Yeah
Which is cool
Yeah
And then vanasabbei you know one of those scientists who are talked et earlier she sasomething really profound
He's like imagine if we found life elsewhere how would that change our view of ourselves
Our place in the universe
Yeah
It's really humbling
Okay
So chapter thirteen introduces the number by john lanchester
And it focuses on the bureau of labor statistics and the creation of something that we all hear about
But probably don't think about too much
Yes
The consumer price index or the cpi
Yeah
Lanchester really does a great job of elevating the statistics
Yeah
He shows how it's not just the sum number
It's this reflection of how the economy is doing
Yeah Yeah
And it has a huge impact on policies on
On everyday life
Yeah
I think it's really important that he shines aliite on the people who are working at the labor department calculating all this stuff
Yeah
You know though the unsung heroes
Their work is so meticulous
And without them
You know the government wouldn't really be all the function
Yeah
It's a really predictable
Okay
So in chapter fourteen
Lanchester continues talking about the number and the cpi
And he starts off with these kind of random facyeyeah
Meknow he mentioned mount yesore the vollcano
That has these really predictable eruption
And then he talks about the font
That the army uses what do you think he's trying to get out there well
He's using these kind of seemingly disconnected examples
Right to show how humans were constantly trying to understand and categorize the world around us right
And then he brings it back to the cpi and argues that it's a central number yeah in our attempt to grasp the complexity of the economy
Any reminds us
How much it impacts us
You know right
Social security
Food
Stamps
All kinds of things are tied to the cpi
And he even explains how the cpi is calculated yeah
Which is supercomplicated actually right they suexplacnumber prices of all these specific items across the entire country
And of course you know there's a lot of debate about the cpi
Some people don't trusted yeah
I mean there's always going to be some disagreement about how to calculted right
And whether accurately reflects the cost of living for everyone right
But lanchester he presents is really interesting argument
He says the cpi is the symbol of the enlightenment project
This idea of using reason and data to understand the world right
Which is powerful
But then he raises the it's really concerning point yeah
He talks about how more and more people are distrusting data right
And he worries about what happens if we lose faith and objective information
He calls it a darkling yeah
Canvas scary cright yeah right
So on to chapter fifteen the cyberslooth and jerred ccoupman from the rs right
So youyou expect no
Not at all you don't usually think of the irs is being on the front lines of fighting cybercrime right
But jerlein bruks
She does a great job in this chapter of showing how important
The role act is yeah
The is has all these people like jeriequipen
Who are basically digital detectives
They're tracaccybrier criminals using all sorts of high tech tools
And it's not just about taxevation anymore right they're going after people who are exploiting children online terrorists who are using crpdu currency
All kinds of stuff and coup in himself
You know he comes across as really driven by this sense of justice
Yeah
Which is really interesting
And she ties his work into this broader context of cyber security
You know how the lines are getting really blurred between different sectors
These days right exactly okay
So chapter sixteen goes into some of the specifics of jerry coup means work
And it's incredible
I mean his team has rescued children from online predators
Yeah
They've see child d abuse material rested petaphiles
Yeah
Stop terrorists from getting funding recovered billions of dobillions of dollars
It's amazing the scale of what they're doing
Yeah
It's kind of ironic right
Yeah
That this is all happening within the is which is this agency that so many people love to hate right
And you know is if their job was in hard enough
There those
Those underfunded undunderstaff
Yeah
So it's even more impressive big quipment in his team are able to accomplish so much
And get this he actually understood the potential for crime with crpddo currency way back in twenty twelve
Yeah
When bitcoin was still this new new he
He was hehead of the curve and his team has been involved in some really big cases
Oah like like black road
Yeah
Online black market
Welcome to video
Oh Yeah
That was a terrible one
A site
Where people were sharing ing d's sexual abuse material
And by ance
Which was this huge crypdu currency exchange yeah
And they busted them for all sorts of illegal activity
So it's kind of crazy to think about right
Yeah
Coubman and his team are doing all this important work
But most people have never even heheard of them
They're really in the shadows
And you know think think with sskills he easeasgo work in a private sector and make a tonof of money yeah
Absolutely
But he chooses to stay and public service
So you know
I think the chapter makes a really powerpoint
We need
Need rethink our assumptions about the ios
And recognize the vital work that people like coopen are doing absolutely all right after to seventeen in the equalizer by sarvvl
This is a good one
It's all about the idea of government as this force that can balance out any qualities and society
And we meet panella right from the national archives
Who provides some really important historical context yeah
Vwed is a great job of using these historical examples to show how relevant this ideas today yeah
How government actions have a direct impact on our lives
And how we have a responsibility to make sure
It's working towards fairness for everyone right okay
So chapter eighteen takes us back to the national archives with pam right
And now we're learning about all the work that goes into
Making these historical records accessible to the public right
Specially to people who don't live near dc
Yeah
And it started this really cool anecdote about how people had to scramble to save these records during the war of eighteen twelve yeah
They were literally loading them onto wagons and ships to keep them from being destroyed by the british right
And eventually that leads to the creation of the the british yeah
We're in nineteen thirty four
Yeah
And their mission is to make sure that all these records
You know billions of are available to anyone who wants to see them
And we're introduced to pam right
Who's the chief in of officer
Yeah
And she's really focused on digitizing these records
So that people who aren't in dc can access them
Which makes sense
You know
Considering her own background
She grew up in this tiny town monmonana yeah
Krered montana population lesson three thousand people it's a world away from dc yeah
And it really shaped her perspective on the importance of making these records accessible to everyone
And she's also a product of government programs
Herself you know
Yeah
She talks about how the federal work study proongrahelhelpher through college yeah
And that really inspired her commitment to public service yeah
She's been this driving force behind all sorts of initiatives to get these records online yeah
Like the titian archivst program
Which
Which is where volunteers help ed trananteers and tag these documents
Yeah
It's been increbbly successful
Yethe is history hub
Which is this online platform
Where people can ask questions about history
Yeah
And not ray stuff and other experts ansanswer them
It's really cool
Yeah
But you know as always the archives are chronically underfunded
Yeah
They have to constantly come up with creative solutions
Yeah
But you know the chapter talks about the emotional impact of seeing these documents first hand
Yeah
Like the treity of new ecoda
Which was this treaty that led to the force removal of the chericicination from their land
It's heavy stuff
Yeah
But it's in forland remember
And you know i think pam rights dedication to making sure that everyone can access these records
It's really inspiring
Yeah
It is right so in chapter nineteen
We meet the ricky by w come al
Bell and he brings us right back to that original question who is government
Yeah
And his answer is simple
It's us yeah
He argues that government isn't this separate thing it's made of a people like us yeah
And he introduces us to olivia
Ramber going going from dedepartment justice yeah
She's a great example of how you know someone new to the system can bring a fresh perspective
Right
Bell really emphasizes the importance of having that roorookiy mindset that curiosity
You know he willness ness quesquestion status qual yeah
He encourage his listeners to really think about what government means to them you know yeah
And how they understand it okay so chaafter twenty tells olivia story
And it's really inspiring to hear about her passion for her work at the doj
Yeah
She's a parallegal specialist in the anti trustivision right and she loves it
She's come to realize ze that this work making sure that companies are playing by the rules
Can really make a difference in people's lives
Right and her quote about the american dream is really powerful
Yeah
She says the american dream shouldn't impede on other people's american dream which was a great great way to put it
Yeah
And her aackground is also fascinating yeah
She was adoted ted this too mums moved to oakland to be part of a strong community
And involved an activism from a young age
It's clear that she's always been driven to make a positive impact yeah
Absolutely
And the chapter also talks about maxstier and the partnership for public service yeah
And program for training paralley goes like olivia
Yeah
And it brings up this really important issue of student debt yeah
How can be a huge barrier for young people who want to go to public service yeah
Exactly
So the chapter ends by really stressing how much we need people like olivia in government yeah
And how we need to support them
You know
Make sure they can afford to do this work
Okay chapter twenty one
The free living bureaucrat and we meet haerstone at the fdi another great example of how the reality of government work often doesn't match the stereotype
Yeah
She's a total unsung hero yeah
嗯
And the chapter highlights
This tension between bureaucracy and innovation right
You know how those two things can clash
But it also shows how people like heather can navigate
That and still make a real difference yeah
There's an amazing story about how she used her quick thinking to save lives during a crisis right
It really makes you question those assumptions we have about government workers yeah
Absolutely
Okay chapter twenty two continues hetherstone story and this one is really emotional
It ah it's about this couple water and amanda
Smith and their daughter irenina whose diagnosed with this extremely rare brain meeting
Ammeba ballomefia
Mantreleariis yeah
And there's basically no effective treatment for us
So amanda she just throws herself into research
Desperately searching for anything that could help her daughter yeah
And she stumbles across the strug g icroroxsaline yeah
That's shown some promise in lab studies
But it's not approved for this use
So so she contacts therstone at the fd a
Yeah
She helps them evigate the system
And get access to the drug
Yeah she really goes above and beyond and alenina
She actually recovers it's a miracle
It really is
And you know of course this has a huge impact on water and a manda's marriage
Yeah brings them back together
But the chapter doesn't end there
It also points out
That even the olena survived the system for treating rare diseases is still broken yeah
Haather had this database of potential treatments that was just sitting there unused fright
And then they tell this heartbreaking story about another little girl in california
Who wasn't so lucky
It's a reminder that even within these stories of individual resilience in connection
You know there's a bigger system that needs to change yeah exactly okay so chapter or twenty three image credits
You might think all this is just a list of photos
But it's actually more than than yeah
The book presenent it as this creative element
You know how the photos and their captions contribute to the story remember how the title the book is who is government
Yeah
Well the image credits
Kind of do that too right
They presenthese individuals as characters
You know like the canenary
The sentinel all these roles
That their yeah and the photos themselves
There's a real mix
There yeah some are professional portraits
Summer snapshots
Summer archival images
And you can tell that they've been carefully selected and edited
It really adds another layer to the story are in finally chapter
Twenty four continued who is government
It ends with this powerful question to the reader has a federal employee ever inspired you or made a positive impact on your life yeah
And it encourages people to share their stories with the partnership for public service right
Which is really cool
It's like thethey're creating this archive of positive experiences with government
And you know it's all about recognizing the conrilutions of these public servants who are ten overlooked
Yeah
Absolutely okay
So after this whole deep dive
You know all these different perspective on who government is what would you say is the most important thing for this ners to take away
Well
I think the biggest take away is that government isn't this big scary faceless monster
It's people
People like us exactly a huge group of individuals
All the different rules
Different motivations and their work
You know even if we don't see it
It impacts our lives
Every single day and listeners
We hope you've enjoyed this deep vve
We've try to give you a crash course on this complex topic
We'be even challenge some of your
Your sumptions toabout government
But before we
You
We want to leave you with something
Think about all those individuals
We talked about
