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Welcome to the deep dive
You're shortcut to being well informed ever find yourself wondering why you know you make the same slightly odd choices over and over
Even one part of you knows better or how really simple uh things you barely notice can somehow completely change what you do
Well today we're diving deep into exactly that mystery looking at nudge the final addition by the nobl laoryet rigor yilor and cast on stanction
And this isn't just dry theory
Right
It's about the um
The hidden design a choices that suddenly steerce every single day often completely under the radar
The big question is how can we actually understand these forces
And maybe use them for good
Yeah
What's really amazing
Here's how these kiny details
These nudges can have such massive impacts on what we do sometimes to the better sometimes maybe not is not about strict rules or forcing anyone mayabout um um sculfully tweeking the environment
Where we make decisions
So our mission today is really to unpack these heavy forces and figure out
How they could be used to improve things for everyone
Okay
So let's start unpacking that the authors kick things off with this core idea
This difference between econs and humans
What's that all about why is that distinctions so important for understanding nudges
Well um e cons are those you know perfectly rational beings you find in classic economic models
They always make the best choice wait every single prone gn they're never distracted or emotional thilelologic maches basically
But humans we're wonderfully and predictably flawed
We take mental shortcuts s we mss up
We get tired distracted
We often do things
That aren't really in our own best interest
And that's exactly why that just can be so powerful
They actually account us being well human
嗯
Imperfect right
So if where these uh charmingly imperfect humans can you give us a really surprising example something from the real world
Where a nudge worked in a kind of funnier unexpected way
Oh
Absolutely a great one maybe be a famous
Now is the the men's toilets at shipping airport in astronyam
It turns out
They echged a tiny image of a black house
Fly inside each uranal way a fly seriously in the each urnal
That sounds unconventional to say the list exactly but apparently um men often 都pay that much attention to will their aim
But if you give them something the aim at uh
Ok
I think think see where this is going
Yeah
They're focus
And thererefore their accuracy proves draratically this tiny little fly
This nudge reportedly cut down on spillage as they call it by an incredible eighty percent
Eighty percent
Wow
That's genuinely surprising just from a fly
So what is it about our brains
Then why are we so easily influence by something so subtle well
It often comes down to our two ways of thinking
Our cognitive systems
This idea was really brought to light by psychologists like daniel
Conconomen and namis diversky
You've got the automatic system
That's our gut reaction
It's fast unconscious effortless kind of associative think instinct
Then there's the reflective system
That's our slower more conscious deliberate analytical thought
Yeah
When we actually stop and think things through the thing is our automatic system is often running the show especially when we're busy or tired or just not paying close attention 没有
And that leads to those predictable human errors okay
Like i remember seeing that optical illusion with the two tables
They loove totally different one long and skinny one sort of square issue the sheerd tables illusion
Yeah
And your automatic system just instantly sees them as different shapes
But if you actually measure them
Their identical it takes that slower reflect tive get effort even override the initial gutfeeling even smart people get fooled precisely or a more practical example lay sure sure drive in chicago
They painted converging white stripe on the approaching dangerous curves converging stripes
How does that work as you drive towards the curse
The stripskate closer together
It creates the optical illusion that you're speeding up
Even if your speed is constant
So your automatic system reacts
And you instinctively naturally slow down
It's a visual nudge
That's clever
So our automatic system is powerful
But it also leads to these biases
Right you mention unrealistic optimists
I'm definitely it's fascinating study
After study shows like over ninety percent drivers think they're better than average
Which statistically is impossible
Right someone asked to be average or below exactly and most merry couples es if they've been divorce before estimate their own chance of divorce at basically zero
This kind of optimism
Well
Maybe nice
Personally can make us seriously underestimate risks
Whether in starting a business or just you know remembering to get a flu shot um
And there's another big one matchin loss of version that sounds important
For how twice es is get designed usually important loss of version is the idea that we feel losses much more strongly than we feel equivalent games roughly twice strongly
The research suggests twice as much so losing ten dollars feels as bad is gaining twenty dollars feels good
Pretty much
Yeah
The classic experiment is with a coffee mike
If you give somewhat a mug
They''ll demand say seven dollars to sell it
But someone who doesn't have the mug
Might only be willing to pay three dollars to buy it
Just because they owe it
It suddenly feels more valuable and losing it feels bad
Exactly when something is yours giving it up
Feels like a loss and the key inside here is crucial the fear of losing something is a much stronger motivator than the promise of an equivalent game okay
So that explains why sometimes penalties work better than rewards like the plastic bag
Example precisely charging a small fee maybe five or ten cents for a plastic bag
Often reduces bag usage way more effectively than offering a fibrten cenent discount bringing your own reusable bag
People just hate that feeling of losing money even a tiny amout okay so given that were these humans prone to these biases and shortcuts
The big way tion is what can actually be done
How can we design things better
And that brings us to this idea of the choice architecture
Exactly a choice architect is simply anyone who organizes the context in which people make decisions
And here's the really powerinside side choararchicture ture inavvable you
You aavoid it
So we'll think about it
Every website layout
Every menu design
Every supermarket eyle arrangement
Every government form someone had to design it and that design whether intentionally or night will influence the choices people make right
There's no neutral design
It really isn't
So the argument is since we have to design these context
Anyway
Let's be conscious about it
Let's design and thoughtfully and tatailor and susomethey put it
Let's tread to nudge for good use
These influences to help people make choices
That they themselves would likely dem better and one of the most powerful tools
These architects have maybe the most powerful is something we often don't even think about the choice we make by default
That's the one
The default option
Yes
This is simply
What happens
If you do not
If you don't make an active choice
You get the default and inertia is incredibly powerful
You mentioned organ donation earlier
The difference between en opt in and opt out systems is huge as and it
It's stagerering germany for example is opt in
You have to actively sign up to be an organ donor
Their donation rates are on twelve percent neighboring austria is opt out
Presumed consent you're considered a donor
Unless
You actively oppped out
Their rate yethe over ninety nine percent
Wow
Twelve percent vers ninety nine percent just based on the default setting incredible
But he said the authors don't necessarily advocate for presume consent
Somewhere even with those numbers
Why not it's an interesting ethical point
They raise while presumed consent is highly effective
At increasing the supply of organs
They worry
It might not always reflect the true informed consent of the individual
Sometimes it becomes more of a families consent mpicicy
Where famfamily is still asked
It might override the presumption
If they are uncomfortable suggesting the disease wishes weren't explplicitly known or confirmed they prioritize genuine explplicit choice
Even if it leads to slightly lower numbers initially okay
So if not presumed consent
What do they suggest instead for something like organdonation
How do you encourage that choice
The preferred approach is prompto choice
Don't presume anything
But make it mandatory for people to state their preference at some convenient point
Like we're getting a driver's licence
You have to say yes or no
Exactly you have to make an active decision and combine that with making it easy
And maybe even emotionally resonant
Like that football cluclub in brazil sport club do recife
Oh Yeah
The immodeal fans campaign
That's the one
They created this campaign linking organ donation to undying fan loyalty
He was emotional easy to sign up and reportedly got over fifty thousand people to register for donor cards
Um they explicitly asked
And they made it appealing that make sense
So beyond defaults and prompting what else in the choice architects tool box
Ye're social creatures right
Does what other people do influence us massively our tendency to can form to follow the heard is incredibly strong
You probably know about the classic ash conform the experiments from psychology
Where people denied what they clearly sawgest
Because everyone else in the ggroup gave wrong ong answer precise
对
People would look at lines of obviously different links and agree with the group
That they were the same
Even when the group was made of a strangthethe'd just met or we really want to fit in or at least not stick out
Negatively
And you see this used in real campaigns too right
Like that texas anti littering campaign
Oh
Ommewith
Texxas is clasassioit didn't use fines or threads initially it leverage texas pride use local heroes
Like musicians
Like football players in its ads and framed delittering as something untaxi
So it tapped into identity and social norms
Exactly
And it was incredibly effective reduced roadside litter by something like seventy two percent in six years no end dates needed or think about tax collection in the uk
Good do they do there they sent letters to late taxpayers that included a simple truthful sense nine at of ten people in the uk pay their tax on time
And sometimes added you are currently in very small minority
Who have not paid us
Yet just pointing out that most people do pay yep that's simple social norm nudge significantly increase payment rates
It's suddenly prescious people to conform to the desirable behavior of the majority
Nobody wants to be in that very small minority
Okay
So defaults prompting choice social norms
What else there's something about
Just making things simpler
Absolutely
That's the key principle make it easy
This is is into the social psychologist kurt luin called channel factors seemingly small procedal details that can either block or facilitate action removing friction is key
Like the yale technicit study perfect example
Just giving students a campus map with a health center circled
And asking them to think about when they would go
Basically prompting them to make a simple plplant boosted vaccination rates from a tiny three percent up to twenty eight percent
Wow
Just making the path a little clear
Exactly it wasn't about changing attitudes or believes about technical shots
It was just about removing a small practical hurdle
The mental effort of figuring out where and when to go make the desired path
The path of of least resistance
And sometimes
Maybe you can make that path not as easy but actually fun
Yes
That's the make it fun principle
Those wagges sponsored an initiative and sweet and called the fun theory one project
Turned the stairs
Next to an escalator in the stock m subway station into giant working piano keys
Kind of stairs
That sounds amazing
It was
And what happened sixty six percent
More people chose to take the stairs instead the escalator
Just because it was fun
It turned exercise from a chore into a lighttlix ence
That's brilliant any other fun examples
Well there was a city in taiwan new taiai city
That had a problem with dog waste their solution
A lottery owners who deposited their dogs wawaste in special bins got a lottery ticket
The grand price gold ding gets haha literly turning pop into gold
Pretty much
It may cleaning up after your dog not just a civic duty
But potentially very rewarding and certainly taltalabout
If
If can inject fun into a desired behavior
People are much more likely to do it
Okay
This is all really fascinating stuff
Well let's bring it down to earth
Where do these nudges really hit home in our daily lives
Especially some more critical like our finances saving for retirement for instance
That's tough for a lot of people
H savings one of the hardest things for us
Humans
It require sacrificing now for a benefit far in the future
Dealing with complex choices overcoming in nurtium
It's a perfect storm for sub optimal decisions
So how do you not just help there a really big one is automatically roll up in workplace for time in plpllike four one case in the us instead of having to actively sign up new employees are automtically roroled unless
They specifically opppout not using the power of the default right exactly and a dramatically increases participation rates often getting them uptowards ninety percent are higher comare red
It mabe be sixsixperperent ent opten
But
But is a catch with the catch the default settings within the plan matter hugely
If the default savings rate is too low
Say three percent of salary people tend to just stick with that
Even if it's not enough for a comfortable retirement
Or if the default investment is superconservative tive a money market
Market ununeven young defloyees miss out on decades of potential growth inership keeps them in these sub optimal defaults so automatic roomit is good but not perfect
How do you nudge people to save more over time without forcing them
That's where a really clever program called save more tomorrow comes in it was developed by richard dailor in schlovbenarc save more tomorrow
How do that work participants agree in advance to increase their savings contribution rate automatically
Whenever they get a pay raise in the future
Ah so the increase happens before the extra money hits their regular paycheck precisely
是不是it leverages a couple of key behavioral insights
First loss a version
Since the contribution goes up with the race
They never see their takhome pay actually go down
They don't feel the loss executely second it
It tackles present by us
We all intend to save more later right this program locks in those good future intentions
You commit now to saving more tomorrow and happens automatically it's been incredibly successful in boosting savings rates over time that is mart okay
What about the other other side
The coin crecredit carlaright big one
Any common mistakes there that nudges can help with yeah a really comment in costly one is how people manage multiple credit card balances
Many people tend to spread their payments out
Maybe paying just the minimum on all cards
Or trying to pay a bit extraa oneach each one they kind to do balance whachching well different cards usually have vastly different interest rates
The rational thing to do
The econ thing is to pay the minimum on all card to accept the one with the highest interest trade and throw every extra dollar that high interest dead
Until it's gone bounance matching cost sts people a lot in extra interest payments
So how can ennudge fix that
This is where technology can help the others mention apps sort of user engines like tally these apps can analize all your cards
Figure out the opimal payment strategy focusing on the highest apr first and then automate the payments for you
It nudges you into the mathematically best approach
Without you having to constantly track and calculate making the smart choice
Easy again okay
One more financial one insurance deductiables
You said people often make a mistake
There yes
Deductable diversion
People often choose deductables
That are too low
The overpain premium to cover relatively small manageable risks
They could probably afford to pay out of pocket
If needed
Why do they do that fear of having to pay anything partly loss a version again perhaps the thought of having to pay
Say a thousand dollar deductable feels bad
Even if it rarely happens
So they pay significantly higher premiums every single year for a lower deducttable like five hundred dollars or even two hundred fifty dollars
So what's the nuge rule of some here could pretty clear
Always choose the highest deductile you can comfortably afford to pay
Is something bad happens
Self ensure for the small stuff
How much can that save
But could be significant maybe hundreds even thousands of dollars a year depending on the type of insurance for example increasing a homemoters to deductable from five hundred to a thousand dollars
Might save one hundred dollars are more annually in premium
Ok
Ay to have a claim more often than once every ten years just to break even on average and most people don't
It's usually a smart financial move right that's a really practical take away
Okwe've talked a lot about the positive side of nudging
Nudging for good
But the answers also talk about a darker site
Something they cause sludge
But what exactly sludge
Sludge is basically the lip side of a good nudge
It's friction hassle complexity and choice architecture that makes it harder for people to get an outcome
That would actually benefit them
It increases the effort needed to make a good choice or sometimes any choice at all
And this can be intentional like companies deliberately making things difficult
Oh
Absolutely think about dark patterns online websites designing to tricky into signing up for something or making
It incredibly difficult to find the unsubscribe button for a newsletter or service or those male rebates
That recquiryou to cut out barcodes
Filill out complicated forms ydeeverything by a certain date
Y're design knowing that many people will fail to complete the process
Saving the company money
Yeah
That's intentional sludge
I remember reading about that london newspaper subscription trap in the book
That sounded like prime sludge a perfect example
They offered a cheap one pound trial for a month
But buried in the terms was a requirement for ourteen days notice to cancel
So you're month's trial was effectively only two weeks long before you were committed to paying more in cancelling wasn't easy
Either right not at all
You couldn't just click button online
You had to call a specific london phone number only during uk business hours weight on hold
It was designed with maximum friction to discouracancellation and keep people paying pure sludge
Herk that's frustrating just hearing about it
But sludge ges are always malicious as it
It can be unintentional
That's right
Sometimes systems are just poorly designed
Often accumulating complexity over time a huge example is the sheer paper at burden in many government programs like filing taxes in the us
Exactly the main us tax form the ten forty used to come with over hundred pages of instructions
It's so complex
So sluggy
That over ninety four percent of americans either pay a tax professional or use software to file
People spend on average thirteen hours around two hundred dollars
Just navigating the system each year
And how does that compare elsewhere contrast that with sweden the sourge government arready has most of the necessary income information
They send citizens of prefilled taxreturn often via text message
If it looks correct
You can approve it with basically one click on your phone
Often eighperpercent of switdied taxpaages in minutes this way
Wow
That's a massive difference in slug reduction huge
It shows how thoughtful design can remove immense burdens and make life easier for citizens
Reducing sludge is just as important as creating good nudges
Now all this talk of influencing choices
Even for good does raise a question
Some critics argue that nudging is manipulative
Maybe even sneakative
They might say look mandaare banans are clecleing up front
But nudges operate behind the scenes
Now do you sell they are insencine address that criticism
They tackle that head on
And they push back pretty strongly
Their argument is that most beneficial nudges are actually quite transparent
Like why well think calcalary labels on menus
Graphic warnings on cigarette packs
Information disclosure about energy efficiency
Even default settings in software
You can usually see them
And importantly you can choose to ignore them or change them
Nudge ges aim to preserve freedom of choice
So if it's hidden
Really
Really hard to opt out of it's not really nudge in their view
Exactly that crosses the line into sletch or potentially manipulation
Which goes against the core principle of nudge for good
They propose what they call the publicity principle as a key ethical test
The publicity principal
What's that it basically says that any choice architect whether in government or the private sector should only implement nudges or policies
That they would be willing and able to defend publicly
If you feel you have to hide what you're doing or how it works
You probably shouldn't be doing
It transparently is key
That makes sense be open
About how you're trying to help people make better choices right
The goal is intricery
It's making the beneficial path easier to follow
While still allowing people to go their own way
If they really wanted okso wrapping this
This all up them
What's the big picture take away from our deep dive into nudge
It seems like understanding the stuff is pretty crucial
I think the biggest take away
That choice architecture is simply
Unavoidable
We are always being influenced by the way choices are presented to us
Whether that design is intentional or accidenal
Someone is always designing the menu
The form
The website
So the real question isn't if we should nunudge
But how precisely
How do we nudge
Effectively
Ethically and transparently are we using these powerful behavioral insights to genuinely help people achieve their own goals
Better health
Better finances or better society
While always respecting their freedom to choose differently
It's about recognizing as steve jobs famously put it that design is not just what it looks like
It feels like
Design is how it works right and the plea from the authors is clear
Nudge dge for good
It's a call to design systems big and small
With a real understanding of human psychology
Making the good choice
The easy choice or least an easier one
So something for you are listeners to think about where do you notice nudge ges influencing your daily life are their places may be at work or when dealing with services or even just an chown using onmind
Where you wish choices were designed differently
Where could a little less sludge or a better nudge make things easier or better for you
It's definitely given me a lot to cheyou on me too
It changes how you see the world around you
Wow
Thanks for listening to this deep dive into the world of nudge
We hope you gain some surprising insights
I'll see you next time on the deep dive
