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Welcome to the deep dive
Where we kind of you siff through the information out there the stuff
You're probably curious of out
But don't have time to fully explore yourself
Yeah
Exactly we do all the heavy lifting
Exactly it's like a shortcut
You know to being really informed and hh moments
Yes
Without getting bogged down in all the details
So so
Today
Today
Theis a good one one
It is a good one
Today we are diving into the journey of daniel eck
Founder of spotify
The founder of spotify huge name and our source here is his in depth interview
Super and depth
Super and depth
Like we went deep on this one
It's
It's the didiof of a cee o
Which you can find on youtube
That's the title
That's the channel
Go check it out
Yeah
Definicheck it out
And for you are listeners
You know you're being kind of person
Who wants to quickly and thorghly understand these really important topic
The people who get it
You get it
You appreciate the oha moments without being overwhelmed by a million different details
Yeah
嗯
This is your deep dive
We're pulling out the most valuable lessons from ex experiences
His philosophes
Everything from his early years
How do you grow up
Formative
Formative
Thank you all the way to like navigating the crazy world of competing with these commative
Thank you
You know apple apple
The big one
The big one we're looking at all of this to the lens of like what is it take to be an entrepreneur
How do you grow as a person
And how do you deal with all those crazy challenges
That life frozat you i think what's really interesting write of bed is just how much honest reflection
He's doing
Yeah
You know for someone who built a company
This big global yeah
Global
He's really pulling back the curtain and sharing not just his wins
But also like you know where he was vulnerable
There's moments
Where he really learned something mistakes
The mistakes exactly yei think for anyone out there who's trying to understand what it really takes to build something big yeah
You know something that matters
It's really valuable
Super valuable
Hehear taltalk about it lelereally win all though way back to the beginning
Eke actually describes himself
You know his younger
Yourself kind of an introvert
Not like the quoting quote star student another most academically amazing yeah
Not like top of his classer anything
And he even says he felt like he didn't bebeanywhere
Oh
Absolutely
When he think about where he ended up
It's crazy right like spotify
Oh
Huge impact
Huhuge impact globally
But one thing really stands out
Is the influence of his mom
Oh
Absolutely
She was a huge force in his life
Like you can tell a single mom too yeah
Single mom that's
That's a big deal yeah
So she was super determined to prove her brother wrong
Her brother basically said that daniel woudn't amount too much yeah
Underestimated him total tal interest ted him
And wasn't how that kind of resilience that she had toally rubdoff on him
Totally rubbdoff on him
But it wasn't even just about proving her bread her wrong
是的是的是的是的
Right it was more than that
It wasn't like she was pushing him to become a doctor a lawyer
Anything like that yeknow her focus was more about like giving him good good edution tion
General you know like mahim a good person
Good human being
Yeah Yeah
Good good human being
And she had some really interesting ways of doing
That yeah like got him
Him into pen half one
If you wte te you in her
That i mean vagly
Yeah like you know fencing horse back riding
Rrunning
Swimming
It's every
It's crazy right and all of this is happening in a working class neighborhooit's not like they were not exactly the typical background for no
Not at all
But then to make things even more interesting
She put him in all female jynastics
What yeah apparently as bit clums as a kid
Oh Okay
Yeah Yeah
Man to top it off
She got him in the theater
Yeah
That's a curve ball for an interrover
I know right like you think that would be the last thing and introvert would want to do yeah
But her thinking was that he
He neeto learn how to express himself to find his voice
Exactly
And it wasn't just about the activiity themselves
It was also about the way she approached his school work
No So well
She always emphasized effort over just getting good grades like even when he did well she mebe like okay
But how can you push yerself even further well she sounds intense
She was definitely big gaan for high bar constantly pushing him to be as best
But it wasn't just his mom
You know there is also a strong musical influence in his family
Oh Yeah
His grandfather was an opera singer
An opera singer and his grandmother was a jazz pianas than an actress
So music was a huge part of his life from the very hobinning not just a hobby
He was a woven into his upbringing
Exactly
And then you look at school learyears
He actually says he enjoyed learning
You know he had a good memory
And he could kind of navigate different social groups
Like he could hang out with the athletes ditions
The math vizes
But
But he didn't quite fit in anywhere completely yeah
I was like he could relate to everyone
But he didn't fully belong to any one group
A bit of an outsider
Yeah
He actually calls it a blessing in a curse
Like being adaptables great
But it also meant he always felt a little bit
And he was on the outside looking in exact yeah
And then comes the crazy part
The story right
He launches his first company
It becomes a huge success
It's a success
Any basically retires at twenty two right
Yeah
Right
Most people are just getting started at that age
I know right
And here's the thing right
It's actually a twenty two
Not twenty three
Like they said of the beginning
The video i'm interesting
So even younger
Even younger
But the really interesting part is what happened next during that retirement yet everything right
The sports car
Sports car going to nightclubs all the time
Money
Freedom
Freedom
But after just six months
He realized it wasn't fulfilling at all the classic story of money can buy happiness
It's true though like
Like he had it at
And even empty
Even depressed
He said yeah
Depressed
And that's when he started asking himself his really important question
What was it
What if i could work on something i actually care about
You know something that had meaning
And this was at a time
When the music industry was considered like dead the water
Everyone thought it was going down
The dream exactly piiracy was rampant
Nobody was buying c ds anymore
And here he is thinking about starting spotify
And that's bold
Yeah
I know right even he admits he didn't think it
It would be a huge financial success
At first
But he saw the potential impact
The impact exactly like the way it could change how people listen to music
And this is all happening
While he's trying to figure out what to do this life
Exactly so he's going through this existenal crisis
And at the same time he meets martin lorencent the founder der trade doubler another entrepreneur
Huge entrepreneur tradeoubler gone public martin was super successful financially i
But he was feeling that same empty ina
That emptiness
That void
And it's crazy
Because they connected on that level
You know two successful guys who had achieve what everyone thinks they want
And realizing it wasn't enough
It wasn't enough
And that shared experiexperience
That's really what laid the foundation for spotify interesting
It really is so the idea takes root right okay
But building spotify
Let me tell it
It was not a walk in the park
I can imagine he talks like near death experiexperihaowoh conclose to going bankrupt constantly running out of money
Oh wow
Yeah
And even talks about the physical toll
It took on him like stress induced hair loss
Oh
H wewe game
It's amazing how stress man physically isisn't
It It
It really shows you just how hard those early years were the real greedy side of starting a business
Exactly
It's not all glamorous
You know
And at first
He was trying to be like mark zucker
Berg
You know
Trying to be involved in everything
Yeah
Like running every meeting
Been the best product person micro managing
Yeah
But he quickly realized that wasn't get a workform
是的 对的
You can't do it all you can't
So you learn to delegate
To trust other people
To build a really strong team
Absolutely
And he also talks about how important relationships are
Oh
Interesting
Yeah
He says like being the easiest person to deal with is is superpower
Especially in business
Especially in business
Like when you're facing challenges
When you need to solve problems
It's so much easier when people like you and want to work with you
And then he even came up later
When he was dealing with apple
Oh Wow
That isn't negotiation
Yeah
Those were intense
But he was able to navigthem
Because he had built those relationships
It's sure
Relationships matter they do okay
So let's talk about ambition for second igdescriries es mmself as ambitious
But in a very specific way
How so well it goes back to his mom
She always emphasized the importance of the effort you put in and the potential use drive for for not just the outcome interesting focusing on the process more than the result exactly so for him
Ambition is about pushing yourself about maximizing capabilities
Not just about achieving a specific goal
It does um
And he actually gives this advice aim super high and the difference in effort between aiming high and aiming just a little bit higher is often not that much
I like that it's a good one right
But he also points out that a lot of people are held back by fear
Fear failure
Fear failure exactly yeah
And he's really open about this advice gives to his own kids about business okwhat does he tell them is a yeah study business
Learn the theory
But even more importantly go out there
And work for great businesses get real world experience
Real world experience
But he also says work for great individuals like learn from the best people
You can find that's much good advice
It is it's like yeah
You can read all the books
You want
But there's nothing like seeing how successful people actually operate in real life yeah
And it's interesting
He has this nuanced of university
Ity nuance his key
He doesn't think it's good or bad
Yeinherently it's more about what you want to do with your life
You know like if you want to be a lawyer
You kind of have to go to w school
Exactly
But for entrepreneurs it might not be the best path for everyone
And when it comes the innovation
He's a very practical perspective
How so he doesn't think it always has to be about creating something entirely new you know out of thair yeah
A lot of times
It's about taking existing things and combining them in a new way like looking at things from a different angle
Exactly
And he's a big believer in continuous learning
Even though he dropped out of university
Yeah
He dropped out
But he's always learning new thing
He education self educayeyeah
You know what else
He's a big an an what what the advice that young entrepreneur should join startups to get that hands on experience
Exactly
Because in a start up
You're close to the action
You get to see how decisions are made
And if you fail
It's low cost
It's low cost
Yeah
Ah you learn from it
And you move on
But you know it's funny
He actually admits that his perspective on giving advice changed over time
Really how so well
He's come to realize that there's no one size fits all formula for success cess make senlike
But he work for him
Might not work for someone else yeah
And i think that's a sign of true wisdom
You know he's not trying to pretend he has all the answers yeah
Just just ararhis experience hearing
His experience exactly yeah
So now going back to that turning point in his story
You know when he met martin
During his quoton quote retirement
That's got to be significant it was huge
They both had achieve this financial success
But they were both feeling empty
It's like they are missing something it was yeah
And that realization
That money in susucess cess ren't enough
That's a big realization
It is it made
It realize
How much he actually enjoyed working
We enjoyed working yeah
Like the actual process working king learning ning things of collaborate with smart people
He reframed it
He reframed it completely it wasn't just about the outcome
Anymore was about the journey
And that's when the idea for spopofy really started to take shape in that context ts of shared dissolusiment
Yet there were both kind of questioning everything
And during one of their conursations
They started talking king music about
About expassion from music about all the problems in the industry arrest sts histc well not quite yeah
There are still a lot of hurdles to overcome
But that initial spark that was a huge moment
And even though he wasn't sure of spotify could be financial home run
He was willing to give it a shot
He was and the moment he committed to it
His whole outlook changed like goway way lifted
It's like this way was lifted off his shoulders
He had a purpose again he was excited about work
That's the power of finding something you're truly passionate about it really is
And this leads is to really inteinteresting part of interinterview
Where he talks about happiness
Fulfillment question
The big question yeah
And you know what
嗯
He actually calls his early belief that wealthand status would equal happiness are failed hypothesis
It's a common misconception
Now it is
But he says you have to experience at first hand to really understand it like you can't just be told
You had to live it
It exactly
And it's interesting
Because he says there are some things in life
That you can only learn through experience not just from books or advice
No in for him status was one of those things
Like he had to go through that whole phase of the hieving success and realizing
It wasn't what he thought it would be so what did he learn what does make him happy
He actually identify several things
He talks about the importance of continuous learning of having genuine connections with people you know not just superficial relationship
Real friendship
Real friendship yeah
But he also talks about needing time alone like soliitude to recharge that's solitdable
It is right
Yeah
Especially for an intervert
But he also needs to feel like he's making a positive impact on the world having a purpose
Yeah
And you know what else he needs to have fun make sense
It does right
Life is too short to be miserable all the time
Yeah
And it's interesting
Because he talks about needing mass allitude
Even when he's surrounded by people like he needs time to process
Exactly
Even at social events
Even with social friends
He needs those moments to just be by himself that self awareness
Huge self awareness and 是的对对对的对的
He actually brings up how this plays out in his romantic relationships
Oh
Interesting
Yeah
He talks about how his need for a long time can sometimes clash with a partners need for quality time
That's a common issue and relationships
It is
And being emphasizes the importance of understanding each oth's needs
And being willing ling compromise communication is key
Always is ok
So now let's talk about the music industry for a second so e started spotify
It seem like an impossible task
Yeah disrupt a whole industry right like mumusic industry was huge
It was powerful
And it was completely set in its ways
But esasays he didn't see as impossible at first
Why not well he calls it the beautiful naivity of an entrepreneur
Like sometimes not fully asppping the complexities of a situation can be an advantage
It's like ignorance bliss sometimes yeah in a way
Yeah
Well youyou're not burden by all the conventional wisdom
All the reasons
Why something can't be done
You just see the problem
And you think okay
Let's solve it any had a passion for music huge passion
But he also knew he needed to learn
Like really learn about the industry
So he spent an insane about a time researching
How much time were we talking
He estimates around five hundred hours
Five hundred hours just on research
Just on research
Just trying to understand the inns and outs how music coyyright
How record labels worked all of it
Wow
That's dedication it is
And he actually makes his really interesting point
He says that when smart people spend a lot of time truly understanding a problem
They're bound to find new solution
Exactly so in a way
He was setting himself up for success
By going so deep into the research
And by the time he was ready
Alarch spopofy
He had basically become an expert on the music industry
And he was able to see what needed to be fax
Yeah
But even with all that knowledge
Even with his passion
He still knew there was a lot of risk involved
Of course there was a huge gamble
Huge gamble
But he saw the potential outcome in a very binary way
The binary ary like either would
Would a huge success
Or
Or would be a manageable failure
And for him the potential reward was worth the risk
And he doesn't sugar coat the journey
Either no
He talks about all the moments of doubt
The constant rejections from record labels
He took them eighteen months to get the music industry on board
Eighteen months can you imagine the start
It only imagine
He jokes about
About losing hair and gaining weight
Because of it
But he also says that is
Is o founder der tin was a huge support during those tough times a true partner
Yeah
Martiwas always optimistic
Always believed in the vision
And that was crucial for eak
Because it gave him the strength to keep going to not give up
Exactly
And this brings us to a really important question
You know when you persevere
And when you quit tough one
It is
And eeg actually says
It's where art meets science
Because there's no easy answer
No magic formula
No magic formula
It's about evaluating the potential upside
Versus the potential downside
And trusting your gut intuition plays a role totally
And he also talks about the importance of having different perspectives like not just surrounding yourself with yes men
Yeah
He says you need people who will challenge you
Who will play doubles advocate
Because it's easy to get caught up in your own optimism and overlook potential problems
Okay now remember the stories about eak flying to the york without even having meetings set up with record label executives
Yeah
Those are legendarily
Leleddary
Well he confirms those stories
He was that determined to get spotify off the ground
Her sistant of per persistent
And he learned a really valuable lesson from those experiences
Was that the friend the assistance
The assistance
The assistance
He calls him the keys to the kingdom
Because they control access to the people
You need to reach all about lelease it is
And his strategy was simple but effective
Be consistent
Be easy to work with be the person people wanted help
Yeah
Exactly he was always willing to be flexible to adjust to their schedules
And that made a huge difference
Okay now let's talk about money for a second okay
Eke and martin
They put a lot of their own money
And to spotify around ten million dollars
Combined in the initial seat funding in two thousand seven
That's a lot of money
It was huge
And that just shows how much they believed in the idea
But was also a huge risk like if spopofy had failed
They would have lost everything pretty much
It key says he would have had to go back to getting a regular job
Wow
That's a big gamble
It was
But he believes in betting on yourself
Even more than investing in other startups
Interesting perspectives
It is he's like if you have limited capital invest in your own vision
Then you know what fast forward to twenty fifteen
What happened apple enters the music streaming oow
Wow with apple music
The big competitor
The eight hundred pound gorilla yeah
And a lot of people thought that was it for spotify
You know game over yeah
How could they compete with apple right
But e says that internnally they were actually pretty prepared
Really they thought coming
They did especially after apple acquired beats
They knew it was only a matter of time
So instead of panicking
They use that time to focus on their strength
What were 're their strength ubiquity they wanted spopofy to be available everywhere on every device
Phones
Computers
Cars
Unname it there thinking was that apple would probably focus on its own ecosystem yeah
But spotify could win by being the best music service regardless what device you're using a smart as a smart strategy
And they also did a ton of game
Theyorizing what's basically they try to anticipate every possible move apple could make with apple music
So theybe ready
Exactly
And when apple music finally launched the feeling
It spotify wasn't panic
It was more like relief
Not even relief
It was more like okay
We were right like apple music was pretty much
What they expected
They had planned for it
They had planned for it
And they still believe
They had a key advantage
What was a user experience in personalization
Okay
But they felt like apple might have the edge in distribution
You know
Because they had all those iphes out millions of millions
But spotify had better aggorithms
They were better at understanding your listening habits
And they were available on more platforms
Cross platform compatibility
Yeah
Which was huge
And you know it's funny
Ek actually tried apple music himself
Ah he went back to spopofy
He preferred
He preferred it
He said the personalization was just better
So even though apple was a ormidable competitor
They weren't unbeitable
Not unbeitable
Okay
Let's t's kk about exviews on apple for a second yeah
He actually has a lot respect for them
Because of a fantastic company
Yeah
He admires their products that design
But he also sees them is being very focused on themselves
Not exactly known for collaboration
No
And he points out this interesting shift the tabit with apple over the years
Like they used to be the underdog
The rebel fighting against the big corporation
Exactly
But now they're the giant
The golia
And he thinks some of their tactics
The things that work for them
When they were the underdog or now heard in consumers
Yeah
That specipically mentioned thirty percent fee
They take from app developers on the app ore that's controversial
It is
And the fact that developers can't easily communicate
Directly with their users
It's like a wd garden
Yeah
And each argument is that apple has a responsibility to play fair
To use their power for good
Exactly he thinks would actually benefit everyone including apple in the long room
好的好的
But okay
Let's shift gears a bit
And talk about e him self his philosophy
This is where it gets really interesting
It does
And you know what he actually had a hard time articulating his own principles
Like the things that have guided him to success
Really that's surprising it is
But he uses this great analogy
He says
Spopofy is like a seventeen neural teenager
Whose liberating itself what does that mean basically means the company's no longer just about his vision it's evolved beyond that it's got its own identity now
Yeah
And he points to the influence of other leaders with sspotify like goodooff who has product
And alex was in charged of the business side
They're bringing their own values to the table
It's a team effort
It is
And he acknowledges that he's change to you know he's not the same twenty three years who started the company forty is it's different
It does right your priorities change
And for him culture has become super important even more southern strategy
Yeah
He's a culture eats strategy for breakfast
And he defines culture in a very specific way
Have so he says it's about rewarding the right behaviors like taking risks learning from failures exactly
And discraging the bad behaviors
But also about balancing innovation with responsibility
Especially a company like spotify huge responsibility they have millions of users
Millions of creators
Who rely on them
It's a delicate balance
It is
And he actually draws an interesting parallel to sporteams
Okay
He says the best sports teams have a really strong culture
You know they hold other accountable exactly
And that's what he's trying to create it spotify
But it's not easy
Especially when you're growing is fast is spotify culture can be hard to maintain
When you're scaling that quickly
It is
But something they're very focucused on okay now here's re's really inteintesting quesquestion
What's the best advice eke never received
Like if he could go back and talk to his twenty one
You're itself
What would he tell him
He says he would tell himself to focus on his strength
Which are being pretty good all around
Like he's good at a lot of different things
Jack of all trades
Yeah
But for a long time
He saw that is a weakness
Really yeah
He thought he needed to specialize in one area
But he's come to realize that his versatility is an asset
A superpower
He calls it his ability to learn new things
Quickly to connect different ideas
It's valuable
So valuable
And he wishes he had embraced that earlier instead of trying to fit into a certain mold
It's a good reminder to trust their own instincts
It is he's basically saying
There's no right way to be an entrepreneur
You have to find your own path
Exactly
So you know our listener
You're the person
Who want those key takeways those quick but throrow insights
Yeah
What can we learn from office well first of all embrace your strengths
You don't have to be the best at one thing
You can be good at a lot of things
Like eak divse skills are valuable
They are
And don't be afraid to fail
Aike failed a lot
But he learned from those experiences
Failure is part of the process
It is dinever stop learning be curious dive deep into things
That interest you and most importantly find something
You're passionate about something that derives you exactly because lepassion
That's what's going to keep you going
When things get tough
And you what else remember what ache said about his failed hypothesis about happiness and success yeah
Don't be afraid to question your assumptions about what will make you happy
Y times you have to go through
Through wrong nedoors to find the right one
It's true
And that's what the deep dive is all you
You know ving you the information
You need to make inform decisions to spark those aha moments to help you find your own path
Exactly it's trhope you enjoyed this deep dive into the journey of daniel ache
It's been a fascinate in conversation
It has
And it leads a final thought
Ght you think about your own failed hypothesis
You know the things
You thought would make you happy or successful
That turned out to be different
What did you learn from those experiences in how are those lessons shaping your life
Now it's something to think about it is
Maybe this deep dive has made you curious to learn more about daniel eck
Or maybe you want to read more about spotify
Ed cuculture
It's fasfascinating it
It is whatever you choose to explore we hope this is given you some valuable insight for joining us
The next time
The
The next time
