在手机上保存，获得更好体验
本字幕由TME AI技术生成
Welcome to the deep dive
Today we're looking at this uh really extraordinary personal story
It gives such a unique window into china in the one thousand and nineties
Yeah
And not just china
But also the whole world of martial arts and what
What happens when you dive head first into a totally different culture
Exactly we're following this young american guy matd
Who had this deeply personal reason for going bassically happy way across the world
He wanted to train at the shellon temple
You know the legdary shelenes
Yeah
The place from all the movies and legend
The birthplace of then and
And confuu
But what he actually found there
It was well
There wasn't quite the mythy head in his head not even close
Really
But the experience it ended up changing him profoundly just maybe not in the ways
He initially thought it would
And what i find so fascinating is how his story just one person's experience touches on so much
You've got these huge cultural shifts happening in china
Than economic changes different philosophibumping up against each other
Absolutely
It's to snapshops of moment
And it's all wrapped up in this a narrative
That's got you know cultural stuff like face
Which will definitely get into incredible discipline
But also humor surprisingly
And these moments real insight
The discovery
Yeah
It's quite to make
So let's unpack it all you will dig into why win the first ght
That initial like whip lash of culture shock
Oh Yeah
The culture shock sounds intense the training
Which sounds just brutal um definitely doesn't easy
The friendships
He made which were may be unexpected
And what he ultimately learned all through his search for what he kept calling real kung u that quest her real ness
That's a huge part of it isn't it what does real even mean in that context right
So let's start to beginning math college junior
So he's kind of grappling with themselves
He literally makes this list things that are wrong with mat
Wow
That's brutally honest what was on it things ignorant cowardly stestill boy unattractive spiritually confused pretty happy stuff for young guy definitely that takes some guts just to rite down
And he traces the cowardly part back to his childhood watching david kiadee in confu that show planted a ceed uh the power of pop culture
So many of us have those formative influences right totally
And for him that fantasy connected of this desire to fix what he saw is wrong
Especially the cowards he wanted
And this is his phrase really real comfuu
Which raises that big question
You know how much are goals are quests for self improvement actually shaped by these idealized images we get for media
It's a great question from matt shaolin was the absolute pinnacle
He called it
The cama lot of martial arts
It wasn't just about fighting
It was the source of then bootaism to his other obsession yewas convinced
This was the place
But not everyone agreed his frienend sedows
Just another one of his phases
Professors were kind of concerned
Like this is a cry for help
Yeah a bit extreme
Maybe from
From their perpecto and his parents
Yeah especially as dad really dismayhe describes his dad seeing his catholic and ran reading science and math geek
Sun turning into this liberal religious studies major and a boodhist
Oh wow
You can just feel the generational gap in the ideological whiplash there that's intense family drama before he even leaves exactly so despite all that he goes lands in beijing yeah and bam immediate language shock even after setting mandarin yep three years a college mandrain
But the taxi driver completely unintelligent
He couldn't understand a word
That's so common
Though classroom language versus
Real world dialecks and accents
It's a huge leap
He gives this brief moment of hope when a hotel dormin comliments
His chinese says it's very good
Uh the classic polittness right
But then seconds later the same ororman tells him shellin temple was destroyed during the war
So was cadully drops that bomb
Oh
No imagine hearing that after travelling all that way devastating was it true
Well No
Not exactly it was a very ar finly common on conception
Or maybe just an easy answer later in all woman clarified
It had been rebuilt
But in that moment pure despair for mat
And that early confusion
It really space of volumes doesn't it about the regional differences in china
How information floed or didn't flow low
Then pre nenedefinitely
And it also shows that attitude matt encountered pretty quickly
The you can always trick foreignner thing especially with money
He mentioned getting a terrible exchange rate on the black market
Oh
He learn that less and fast
He also saw taniam and square
But not the image most westerers had not the protest say you know this was later
Was fultouorious people taking photos
He just observe these little slices of life like a taxi backffiring loudly a toddler wearing those traditional split pants
Everyday scenes right
And when he did talk to people about the teen and men massacre
The perspective he often got was interesting
That the protest were premature
And its stability even under oppressive government was better than lawwan chaos that reflects that implicit social contract that was pretty strong
Then except political limits in exchange for economic progress stability over freedom
Essentially
It was a very different viewpoint that he was used to so after navigating all this getting the destroyed temple story corrected
He finally makes it to shaolin the legenary monestery on the mountain
Not quite he arrives and fines comforll world come through world
Seriously
Seriously
He describes like a low rent epcut center restaurants
Everywhere souvenunderstands selling a you know comfood charge cheesy attractions
Oh Man
What kind of attraction get this one place advertise a two thousand year old mommy turns out
It was a dead monkey
You're kidding a dead monkey
That's wow talked about a solution
Man totally his first reaction was just feeling crushed like i flew halfway around the world for this
I've failed
I can only imagine that thinking feeling
So did he just turn around and go home
No
He stuck it out
He eventually found the actual shell wwshoe center and nearby
Yeah
It wasn't much better aesthetically crrked concrete compound okay
So slightly more authentic
Maybe marginly
But trying to actually find monthed to train him was tough
He kept getting brush off with comments like lawire no good at comforfor foreigners basically out
Not exactly a warm welcome
Not at all that's pretty disharding
Then there's this funny moment ent
He ends up up in a video arcade nearby a video arcade near shelling yep
And he starts playing street fighter too
It is actually really good
And this impresses one of the young monks who happens to be there uh street fighter diplomacy
That's an unexpected way to make a connection
He was a tiny crack in the wall
But the real interesting part as you mentioned started
When he actually tried to arrange formal training right the commercial side of things
This is where the idealism really mets reality at that big time
He said negotiating the price felt like being in a used car a lot
He 's dealing with these officials like this guy igname comrade fish
Comrade fish okay apparently their eyes just lit up like cash registers
When they heard he want to stay for a whole year
The money potential um uh so much for the spiritual quest
It's straight the the bottom line quite a contrast to the confuu movies
Where payment is like loyalty and hardship exactly no sweattears currency here just just led hard hard hh and accommodations were exactly manastic luxury either ami guess peeling well paper dodgy wearing you got it
He called his room the bate's motel
Peeling wallpaper exposed wires paint chips in the sink and hot water
Maybe
Every three days if you was lucky
Sounds delightful builds character
Maybe
Maybe
And to top it off
Every morning at the crack of dawn
Loudspeakers would blast communist propaganda songs across the compounds seriously like
Why sounds like socialism is good
A real throback
He called it an acaconistic
Especially because at outside the gtes
You'had all bburgining capitalism
That capalist running dogs
The songs might call them
Them setting up shops
Selling things
Well that contrast to start china in the nineties really was that place of contradictions wasn't at the old guard in the new husele le side by side absolute so okay
He's got his baat's moteile room
He's paid his fee now for the training
The real confuu he came for i was uh brutal
Just absolutely brutal from the getgo
He realized very quickly
His body wasn't made of rubber bans like the teenage monggs training alongside him
Yeah
Starting that kind of intense physical training as an adult is a whole different ball game
嗯
就是his private tutor coach chain was apparently pretty skeptical at first mahad had three
Three years tratraining home home
Shane looked at him after the first session and guess
He'd only practiced for three weeks
Oh
Humbling was changing tough
Oh Yeah
That tells the story about chaning demonstrating a technique
A spinning doghood technique
That he apparently used to indure a rude german corari guy who'd visited earlier
Just actually mentioning it ok
So message received undmeten with coach chching and this ten preious business pretty much
The training itself was relmmptless what was the style like anything unique noticed
He learned that traditional shell and forms were often practiced under the shadow of an ox mini in a very narrow space
Basically on a single straight line
Lots of emphasis on vertical movements up and down
Uh interesting that makes sense for practical fighting
Maybe entight allies or cordoors less room for widestances that was the idea practicality
He also learned something interesting about the mong's perspective on teaching foreigners
Yeah
What was that apparently for the monks
Teaching louway was kind of seen as drarawthe shorststraw
Really why because it took time away from their own training
And for these young monks they were in their peak performance years training was everything
If they wanted to join the performance troops or making naim for themselves that makes sense
It wasn't necessarily prejudice just priorities
Their own careers were on the line
Right now the physical toll on map was immense
He talks about the second day being the absolute worse
The dreadday too sornness
Every athlete knows that feeling
He said it felt like his muscles had been through a code red blanket party just sheer agony sounds about right
How did he even cover well surpriprisingly cochchang out out in an an expected cted chchenk was trying to learn english and asked math to translate the lyrics to an aciof byson a ace of base
All that she wants
While recovering from brutal kangfuu training
That's surreal
Totally surreal
They are of having this long debate about whether the lyrics all that wants is another baby meant to child or baby is in like a boyfriend
Ha that's amazing a bizarre bonding moment over ninety swedish pop really was his humaneed chaying a bit
Maybe matt also learned more about the public face of shell in the performances right
The monggs are famous for those demonstrations
What did he learn
He saw that they heavily featured modern wishe okay
And lushi is different from traditional counright right more acroadtic
Exactly it's highly stylizzed focuses on speed
Flexibility
Flashy movements
Think flips high kicks
Very performance
Oriented beautiful to watch
But not really about self defence
Ah so a form over function in a way
Yeah
And mac gathered that some traditionalisasaw u shi as kind of a political assault on real comn food u attempend by the government
Maybe to make it less about fighting in religion more regimnastics and national pride interesting political dimension
There
But the public
Public loved
Oh Yeah
The crowds went wild for it in the monthdoing it like this one guy dideeking mad got to know we're incredible athletes
Math said
Deeking would sometimes improvides moves mid air
If something went slightly wryeah
And it was still a fucking amazing
Wow
Incredible skill
Even if it wasn't
The ancient secret mat was looking for initially right
It was a different kind of mastery and speak of mastery
Masinter acactions open up this whole other layer of shelling life
Look his relationship with dock
Yeah
Give me his father who they called dock an iron poem comfuu master
His whole teaching philosopy is fascinating madcalled that cruelty is kindness
How so give an example well dock
I had this young orphinstudent a girl
And he basically told her straight up
You have only one chance in life to be excellently comforful
If you fail
You have nothing just intense pressure
Wow
That's harsh
But may be effective in that context pushing for excellence out of necessity perhaps and dog's 's own skill was legendary
Mat saw him split river rocks with his beare hand
He said
Dox's irren poem was his harvard medical school diploma proof of his mastery incredible did mad ever experience that kind of training
Directly he got a little taste of dociron forarm confuu conditioning his arms
But doc warned him specifically don't show off
Don't go around demonstrating your skills
Uh that idea of hidden strength again very different from the west
Where you're often encourage to show case your talents totally different mindset keep it hidden unless
You absolutely need it mad also learned about the ripple effects from something that happened before he arrived two months
Had defected during aus tour
Oh
Right yanmmand
Gugulon
That must have cause wave huge waves and international scandal mt called it
It made getting visas for future
Towards harder for the wooshi center and the month
Who defected they were seen as having no face
Even though they were probably just seeking better opportunities
Exactly
But in that cultural context leaving the group
Embarrassing the authorities
It was a major loss of face and maat being in american
Became this sort of walking economic report
Mongs were constantly asking him how much things caused in americamerichow much people earned trying to gauge the reality versus
The dream
Maybe understanding why there's too left previously it highlighted that huge economic diparity
And this brings us back to that concept of face
It seems crucial to understanding almost everything there it really was matt noticed to influenced thing public
Public havior for ininstance saw men holding hands walking arm and armall all the totally normal al sign of ddright pplatonic affection between men is much more common in many cultures
But a man and a woman holding hands in public much less common more front of bond back
Then even negotiations involved face daling
Nobody wanted to be seen as losing or being taken advantage of
But there were subtle ways to navigated did matt struggle with that the different social queues
He mentioned one time walking with dacking the perforformer monk and dicking just casually took his hand math immediate internal reaction was discomfort wanted to pull away
Because of his american conditioning
Yeah that would feel darering
But he consciously told himself don't pull away
But had recognize he was a different cultural norm
A sign of friendship
Nothing more a small moment but a big step in adapting
That was real effort at cultural emersion recognizing and overriding your own in grained reactions
Definitely he also got drawn into amongst personal lives
Sometimes awkwardly like deck's relationship
Troubles
Oh
Monkroroman well sort of biking king this girlfriend lotus
But he broke up with her
His reason
Because i am a monk
Even though as he admitted to that
He had kissed her twice
Ah the conflict between personal feelings and the chosen path
That's a timeless story
It is and for ducking his bigger goal
His stated aspiration was always to spread shellen comfu and shellon's fame to the rest of the world
That seemed to override personal desires
Dedication or perhaps ambition may be a bit of both probably be ill mad
Also learned a lot about social dynamics
Through something called the hand game
What's that sounds intriguing
He was this really complex drinking game
They played involving hand signals
Bluffing strategy
It sounds intense okay more than just chosing them way more
And man felt it taught him something fundamental about chinese interactions
The sort of poker face nature of it all he felt conversations often had hidden layers
Alterior motives and emotions were sometimes fained or performs intense
That's a fascinating observation
A contrast to the american ideal of keeping it real or being direct
Exactly he sought as a kind of social maneuerring very different from what he was used to and speaking of different perspectives
You mention that quote about wealth in america
Oh Yeah
From deputy leader jaw
He told met america is so wealthy the poor
People are fatter than the rich
Wow
That's blunt
But it really captures a specific perception of american access and inequality from a chinese viewpoint
At that time doesn't it especially coming from a country
That had known widespread famine
It's incredibly telling it speeds
Volumes about differing societal values and economic realities
Matt also had his own interesting economic adventures
Like negotiating his tuition right
He didn't pay the initial asking price
No way they quoted him in thirhundred
Hundred llllars a monwhich
Which was astronomical
Then he managed to negotiated down to five hundred fifty dollars
How do he managed that i thought it was all fixed prices for foigners
It often was
But matt learned the power a persistence maybe a bit of playing the game and leveraging one sea relationships or favor
He realized the merchants were perfectly comfortable gouging a loouway
But haggling was also part of the culture
Even if foreigners ren't expected to be good at it
So he learned to play the game
He did he even developed this perzone
He called crazy foreigners come food not actual fighting
But like theatrical rage displays to get what he wanted you're kidding did that work apparently he used it to get a partial refund on an electric grinder that broke almost immediately just through a calculate attention
Um that late serous adapting to the environment in unexpected ways
Whatever works right meanwhile his actual comforu training was getting more intense
They started sanda okay send it
That's chinese kickboxing right more practical fighting
Yeah exactly strikes
Kicks throws wrestling full contact cocochchhahahad this philosophy y you have to master losing before you can truly fight without fear interesting embrace failure to overcome the fear of it right and mats mainsparing partner this guy baton seem to take that to heart
Mad said bato on basically tried to kill him
Every time they sppart seriously we're just very very intense
Sparing so like like a blurr the lines
But matt refused to back down
Refused to be a whmp
And by doing that by taking the punishment to getting back up
He felt
He passed some kind of unspoken test he earned respect the trial by fire shaolin style
That resilience is key
Definitely at the same time
He was observing other aspects of chinese society
That we're jring like the justice system
What does he see
He watch these show trials on tv
People accused of things like selling fake by you that strong liquor or other economic crimes and the outcome often shockingly death sentences
Yeah
Hit down
Quickly
It really struck man reflecting danjoshopings government's harsh stance on crime corruption
Then the belief in capital punshment ment as deterterwwow
Yeah
That would be incredibly from an american perspective on proportionate justice a real eye open er
Sure
He also also this incident dent he in ner vened in a dispute
What happened there was his old woman a malmmalgrandmother selling little clay cat figurines a tourist was giving her a hard time
Accusing her of cheating or something matt stepped into defender okay
Trying to do the right thing
Yeah
But later
The king pulled him
Aside warrant him
He said
Essentially look
If one of us chinese gets hurt in a scuffle
Nobody really cares
But if you the foreignor get hurt
That's a big problem
It makes the government lose face
Then all of us could be arrested
Wow
So his very presence
His foreigners created this dangerous ripple effect potential
His special status was actually aliliability in some ways
Exactly he couldn't just blend in her act like a local in situations
Like that
It highghted the constant awareness of being
Watched of representing something bigger than himself heavy stuff did all this intensity
The training
The cultural emersion affect his original spiritual quest
It seems like it did
But maybe not how he initially planned
He tried formal meditation
Sitting meditation
But struggled with it not in common
The monkey mind is hard to tain right
But he started to see the come through practice
Itself differently he realized it was a form of meditation for him
And for the monks moving meditation
Ah connecting the physical discipline with mindfulness
That's a classic interpretation in many martielarts
And he connected it back to stuff
Hestustudy ed in college
About misstiism
About finding the sacred in colmonday in the repetitive practice
He even described having this one profound experience during training
Yeah
Where he felt this sense of absolute peace like everything clicked the world dissolved
And hed seen the omous and um a genuine ystical moment
He felt wow so amid its all the great and commercialism and hardship
He found glimpses of what he was searching for it seems so though he also encountered other foreigner searching for enlightenment with mixed results
Oh
Who also was there
There was this guy carlos apparently supertalented
Physically could do a two finger hands stand
But he also lalaimm jesus spotom directly okay blering the lines there perhaps
And then there was michael a swedish guy who preached about the coming x race of humans and claimed north god's like odan and four had appeared to him on the train
Oh Boy
That sounds out there math assessment was pretty blunt
He basically saw michael as a pianti a con man
Someone using shell in to pat his new age resume to gain credibility back home
Yes
Spiritual tourism can attract also orth scana from the sincere seeker to the sherleton
It seems shellyn headed share mat's own journey took a painful detor
When he got sick really say oh
No happencentary landed ed in local
Local hospital in anangg fang
And his description of it
Herring
He called it a helhol
I can only imagine nineteen thousand nineyy's rural chinese hospital conditions might have been rough under statement
The hygene was questionable
But the real kicker was when he needed stitches for a cut
He saw that he was approaching with a rusty looking needle
And would look like thick dirty twine
Oh God
No anesthetic
I'm guessing
He didn't wait to find out the site of the needle in twine apparently made him faint deadway
He called it
His civil war reinactment
Oscar moment just at a revolsion in fear ykes
That's a reality check on healthcare differences makes you appreciate modern medicine
Absolutely
But he recovered got back to training
Eventually faced a major test a sandof tournamin in xizoo okay putting his training into practice against others
How did that go a whole experience was intense
Even the way in was awkward all the fighter standing ground half naked
Feeling very exposed
Yeah
Winins can be strange rituals ls
How the the fights he fought his way of the final match against the raining champion
The champ how did he do
He got been badly
The champ was just skilled led experienced keket a lot of punishment
But did he give up
But did was a thing he kept getting knocked down
But he refused to stay down
Keep kept getting back up
And he said in that moment getting pumbled
That list things are wrong with matt flash through his mind uh the original motivation exactly
And as he kept forcing himself up
He had rerealimation
He might be losing the fight
But he was winning by losing
But he d finally found the courage came looking for he wasn't cowred anymore
Wow
That's powerful finding victory and defeat by overcoming that core fear
That's a profound transformation
It really was and apparently the mongs recognize the two after that fight
They gave a nickname law ww labow
What does that mean
That means old bow boujing was this famous twelth century prime minister known for being brilliant and incorruptable
嗯
But also famously ugly hi so is a compcompment wrapped in a slight jb recognizing his spirit and resilience maybe not his fighting for us
That's how mad took it a sign of respect
Earned the hard way
His journey wasn't over
Though relationships continued to be complex
Like with johny
Yeah
Ah his friend johny came back to china
Ffall in love of the dancer name yelly
But she had an next boyfriend
Who was supposed vedly connected to the triance
Oh Boy
That sounds like trouble
It was
It was a confrontation growing
John was determined to stand his ground and mad despite thinking he was maybe crazy felt he had a back his friend up loyalty
What do they do
Matt actually prepared for a potential fight
Got himself a daagand prprtice ce a nine sesection wip
He required
He rarighly called the crazzfofoiigner comfood school of international diplomacy
Thankfully didn't come the actuviolence ence hope
Thankfully know it defused
But it showed how deep those bonds could get
And the kind of situations
He found himself
Him and his own romantic life was complicated too witching the host this in beijing right
Their relationship was intense
He described it as a lot of crying and a lot of making up
Very passionate
But ultimately doomed by cultural differences
What was the main issue she wanted marriage settle down
He wasn't ready for that didn't see it
His path then different expectations
Different timelines it ended sadly another example of those cultural clashes playing out on a personal level
Differently so eventually his ears up
And he hits back to americamericand the reverse culture shock it him hard
What was that like feeling out of place back home
Yeah
He felt caught between two worlds
American seemed obsessed with things that felt trivial to him
After his experiences
The og simpsune trial was dominating everything
People were just discovering email
And he just come from fila surtrials and intense physical discipline
Right
He joked that he kind of miss the political show trials with a one hundred percent convtion rate
Because at least they felt decisive compared to the media circus around oj a very tongue in cheeat comp mman obviously
But it showed his disorientation
That's understandable a profound experience
Like that changes your perspective entirely how did his family react
Especially his dad that was maybe the most significant moment of his return
His dad seeing how physically changed that was how strong
He become apparently chuckled awkward and insaid something like my son is too strong for me
I can't beat him anymore he's a man
Now Wow
That's huge especially given there earlier conflict huge from map
That moment was the validation
The still a boen on a man item or raised from the list
He achieved that part of his transformation in his father's eyes
That's incredibly point in a journey
That started with trying to fix himself
Ends with his father acknoknowledging his manhood
Exactly
But the story doesn't quite end there
He went back
Back to shelgnon went a decade later in two thousand
Three he went for a reunion
And china especially beijing had changed massively how so eighteen ames everywhere modern airport terminals with moving sidewalks sound dampening panels proposit down to us
Things that were rare or nonexistent on its first trip
The taxi driver even sounded different more confident much more
The driver basically told china has changed a great deal
And then added americamericis at the top of amount
It is very hard for her to keep going up just this aroof burgeoning national pride in confidence
Fascinating china's rise captured in a taxi ride was not shelin in itself that changed dramatically too maybe not entirely for the better in mad size
The village surrounding the teppl area had drunk massively from around ten thousand
People
Mostly students and marshelarts related folks down to under a thousand
Why the change government intervention seems like it a lot of the smaller schools were pushed out there's a big new performance
All almost like a broadway theater featuing slk shows by performance monks more commercialization than less greedy authenticity
That's how mad felt he found himself missing the old tacky village from the nineties
The one with the bad plumming in the dead monkey mommy
Because he said that place had life vitality the new version felt more sterol the bittersweet nature of progress
I suppose did he reconnect with people coach changing
He did he found coach changk
Chang was married now had a little daughter though not to shooting a woman met rememred red being
Being involved with back
Then life moves on how was the reunion
It sounded really warm they reminisst about the old days
The brutal training
The fights
The acase of bed translation incident it solitified those bonds that were forced
And that really unique intense environment
It shows that those connections were real despite all the cultural differences in hardships that shared experience meant something profound
Absolutely
It reinforces that i yeah that for the monthy knew well and ultimately format too
The confuu wasn't just about fighting a performance
As he put it confuu practice was the way they practice bootism the traditional forms were kind of moving meditation
He found an spiritual connection through the physical discipline
After all it just took a very winding unexpected and often uncomfortable path to get there
So what does this all mean for us
Listening to this story
I think this dededive in the matass journey really shows that profound personal growth often comes from pushing ourselves and the uncomfortable unexpected situations
It really does
It's a powerful reminder
That true knowledge
Real self understanding isn't always in books or comfortable settings
Sometimes you have to eat bitter as the chinese saying goes
You have to confront challenges both external and internal those things that ternal with ourselves
Yeah facing them head on yeah like mad in that final setfight
Exactly and maybe it leaves us with a comfortable seonder
And in our world today with so much information about will so much curated reality online
How often do we actively seek out experiences that genuinely challenges that make us uncomfortable
That push us to evolve rather than just experiences that confirm what we already think or feel that's a great question
Do we seek out our own version of shellin
Even if it's not a literal temple
But just a situation that forces us to confront our own lists
Our own need for courage something to think about indeed well
Thanks for listening to this deep dive will see an next episode
