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Welcome to deep it to the pages
Today we're tiving into into totopic
I think for many of us hits incredibly close to home home
Know know perperstent whisisper in the back of your mind
That someone might be secretly upset with you
Or that almost automatic urge to people pleaser
And the deep struggled put your own needs
First it's is whole internal dynamic
That can really profoundly shape our lives
Often without us even uh truly understanding its roots
So we're exploring insights for megjosepphsin's book arumaat me how to stop focusing on
And this book it really takes a deeply personal journey through these experiences
But it also offers some powerful practical pathways toward healing our mission for this deep dive is to truly unpack why these patterns develop how they show up in our daily interactions
And maybe most importantly what actionable steps we can actually take to genuinely break free
Ok
Let's t's into into it
So just have think kicks off her book with that exact question
The title question asking her therapist
Why do do we think people amad amme
She was i think in her early twenty years at the time kind of hoping for a quick fix
You know the straightforward answer
Yeah like a simple explanation exactly
But what her therist helped ed realize ze well farar profound found these pervasive fears
She had like anticipating getting fired every single time her boss messaged her or particuously overanalyzing a friend's xt anxituation
Oh
Pununtuation
Anxiety
Yes
Wondering what a perioe at the end really significed these weren't just random anxieties
These they actually
Tually a phisticated form of hyperviilance
That's a key term hypervigance in what she had always seen is just self sabotage was actually underneath
Ath at all a deep seated form self proproction tion something that to ketuher pass self safe
And it's really illuminating there is how that hypervigance that um that unconscious constant ststate of being highalert
It stems directly from what psychologists called the phone response
Okay the phone response
Yeah
It's one of the four core traureresponse se fight
Flight and fun
And it's often the least recognized one
Maybe because it can look so much like just being agreeable or nice uh interesting
So it's disguised
Exactly essentially fundning is an adaptive survival mechanism
It's where we unconsciously make ourselves more appealing or legs or helpful or just generally agreeable to a perceived threat
A perceived threat not necessarily a peral lichasing you preciseseit could be disapproval anger withdrawal anything that feels unsafe
And the goal is simply to feel safe again
So it's not just about being nice for the safe of it
It's off about abandoning our own needs
Our own feelings to manage someone else is comfort
Wow
Because somewhere along the way our system learned that
That was the safest st option available
And what makes this so tricky
So deeply inggrained is just of some points out
It's how society often reinforces these behaviors right absolutely
That's the huge piece of it
She highlights that you know we actually get promotions
Sometimes for we poposiourselwork the helpful one
The reliable one we get called sellless
When we neglect ourselves
And we get positive feedback affirmation
When we anticipate everyone else's needs
Even if it causes our own well being
It's a really powerful feedback loop evalidates the strategy yeah
And to really capture the impact
She uses this vivid analogy
She talks about a zebra
The zebra yes
I love this one
So imagine as zebrbra
Peacefully grazing
Instantly sponsa line instantly heart pounds a jrenal ine seserges
It's ready the bold right fighter flight kicks in classiicstress response
And then the ligest watders off
Maybe gets distracted what is the zebra
It shakes it off literally sometimes and goes back to to grazing
Exactly it comes down
Almost immediately its nervous system returns to baseline the body process ses the threat and moves on
And that's where the human experience that while it often diverjust quite ite sigficfictly tly from zzebris also for us
Our internal alarm systems can get stuck
Stuck in that on position that steate of hypervigilance for welfare years decades a lifetime is just a sympathy
Wow
Decades yewe can be physiologically ly sating for whethe threat is still there
Whether it's real remembered or just perceived long after any immediate danger his past
So even when we're objectively safe
Um say sitting in our desk
Your body can still be on higher constantly scanning for those subbtle queues that ce signnal danger
Maybe a certone of voice
A brief email
Someone looking away
It sounds exhausting
It is exuulike ananiiety becomes like the alarm system that just won't turn off
And it keeps us from fully turent off
And it's particularly challenging for people pleasers or those using the phone rerese is
Is that their threat often isn't like a roarling
Like disasusubtle
Like sasaproval al or someone seeing unhappy
Exactly those subtle shifts and good or connection can feel incredibly threatening to a system wire for funding ok
That zebra analogy really clarifies
How our bodies can get stuck in that on alert state um far alarm systems are stuck in this hypervigilant pattern
How did joseps see these behaviors showwing you mentioned these roles we sort of adoctor
Yeah
She outlined several common funding roles or architypes that tend to emerge from this ongoing hypervigilance
There are like masks we wear to feel safe
Yeah
One really common one is the peacekeeper
She uses the example of briona
Briona group in a family
Where conflict was really volatile
It's swung between like intense screaming matches
And then these long stony silent treatment
And there was little to know repair acknowledgement
Afterwards so her mother's mood basically dictated the entire households atmosphere
And there was to hireaaren't
She learned to hide her real feelings to apologize for things
She didn't even understand just to try and end that awful silence or prevent an outburst anything for peace
It led
It led to this profound self blame a core belief started to form i am bad and an intense fear of any kind of conflict
She internalized this idea
When someone isn't responding to me
It's because i've done something terribly wrong
So as an adult
She's constantly trying to preempt conflict so super agreeable
Exactly excessively agreeable
Often described as easy going
But really she's stifling her own opinions for own desires to keep the peace carter
So that's the peacekeeper
What's another one
Then there's the perfectionist jojosepson uas the example of ter ter carter was a first generable immigrant daughter
And she felt this immense pressure to be perfect
To make her critical parents proud
There was a lot writing on her success
I can magine that pressure and her emotions
Any sadness anger fear
She felt were often dismissed by her parents as unproductive
Like why are you crying
Get back to studying
Oh
That miss ss herts it really does it led her to believe something was inherently wrong with her just for having those feelings
So she learned ned to shove them down supppress everything and a result a crippling fear of mistakes
But she talks about crying in the middle school
If she got an a instead of an a plus
Wow
Yeah
Any negative feedback felt not just disappointing
But genuinely unsafe it threatten that core need for approval
So it becomes this exhausting existence built on the belief that i need to be perfect
To be loved
Perfect to be loved
That's heavy incredibly she even felt she had to hide moments of relaxation
Like she quickly swapped the tv remote for a book
If someone walked in just to keep up that image of constant productivity in perfection
Wow
Okay peacekeeper
Perfectionist ah h thethere another the
The caretaker sophie is the example
Here the caretaker ophii became was called a parentified child
Basically she had to take on a debt responsibility
Deult resibilities
Very young was was due ea sibling having severe learning disabiliiliand and paparenreally really struggling to cope
So she stepped into a caregiving role early on yes
And she found safety and and ortantly a sense of being loloved and valured by being helpful constantly putting others needs way before her own
And i got rereforcced bbed absolutely phrases like you're such a good girl
What would we do without you
These became powerful rewards
Reforforcing care taking was the way to be loved and feel secure
But the downside it was an adult
This often leads to chronic over extension burnout deep seated resentment
Bubbling under surface ace exficant struggles with setting boundaries
Because saying no feels unsafe exactly or selfish and also a profound feeling of emotional loneliness
Emotional loneliness what does that mean
Exactly
It's not just about being physically alone
It's the deep pain of what didn't happen in childhood
The nurtering
The care
The emotional support that she needed
But didn't receive
Because she is too busy care taking ih
Because they absence of something precisely and these individuals often become hyper independent
They find it incredibly difficult to ask for help ers
Because they learned early on it wasn't safe to rely on others maybe there needs ignored or seen as a burden
Some so asking for help
Feels vulnerable
Even dangerous they feel they have to handle everything themselves so peacekeeper
Perfectiontionist caretaker
These roles they started as survival strategies
Ingenius ones
Really they help these individuals
Navigate difficult environments
But ultimately they become these deeply in grain patterns that get in the way of genuine connection
Connection with ourselves first informmost
And connection with others they leave us feeling exhausted
Disconnected and often truly unseen for often truare benenath ath role
Ok that that laws out the how it shoves up unclearly
So if we maybe recognizbits of ourselves in those descriptions in those protective roles
How do we begin the work of shifting them
Joseph must must offers some strategies right especially around dealing with those relentless anxious thoughts
That internal chatter
Oh
Absolutely she dives deep into why worrying becomes such a well
Such a sticky habit for so many of us especially those prone to foning or people pleasing okay
It often provides this falsense of control
It feels like if we just think through every possible negative outcome
Where somehow preparing ourself
Self like a mental security blanket right like if i worry about this enough will be ready
Exactly we might mentally rehearthat worst case scenario
You know thirty seven times believing it gives us some kind of strategic edge preparing us for the emotional blow
Well here's the really insighttful
And maybe slightly frustrating truth from her work
And it's back by research that repetitive overthinking that ruminination
It doesn't actually prepare us emotionit doesn't less in the impact
If the feared thing does happen
Really it feels like it year i know
But research suggest it often just amplifies the anxiety beforehand without actually providing any emotional buffer later er we end up just as emotionally vulnerable
But we've sisted all that anxiety leading up to it um
So it's counterproductive largely
Yes
Because the brain you see doesn't really differentially
It's strongly between in mamagined threat in a real one
When you're vividly imagining that worst case scenario physiologically your body is reacting almost as if it's happening right now
Wow Okay
So was the first step
Then if worrying isn't the answer
The first crucial step in healing is this profound recognition
You aren't the voice inside your mind
You're the one who notices it
You aren't the voice
You're the one who notices it
Okay Kk
It's about cultivating that observer
Itself stepping back just a little creating some space between you and that incessant chatter rather than being completely consumed by it
That reframing realizing you're the observer
Not the voice that sounds incredibly liberary
But also maybe kind of difficult to actually do after years of being swept away by that internal monologue
How does josepsince suggest we start practicing that separation
Yeah
It definitely takes practice
It's like building a muscle
And to help with this
She introduces a really practical
And i think powerful tool she calls nicer
Nicer okay
What does that stand forand it's an acronym and icer
It stands for notice invite curiosity embrace and return okay notice invite curiosity embrace
Return can you walk us through it maybe with an example
Sure
She shares this perfectly reliable example
She got a last minute concert invite from a friend
But she was genuinely exhausted and just wanted to quiet night
It okay sounds familiar
So her initial thought was just funny
I'm so tired yeah
But then almost immediately the guilt started fletting it ah the guilt yes thoughts like am my bad friend
What if she gemamad
If she doesn't invite ite me time time that inspmiral totally so instead of just reacting from that guilt may be saying yes
When she didn't want to exactly instead of imulsively changing her mind just to avoid the discomfort
The guilt she paused
She decided to try applying nicer okay so first notice right
She simply noticce the guilt and the anxiety swirling insighter just anxnologing okay guilties here
Anxiety is here without judgement
Then invite that sounds kind terintuitive invite the guilt it does right
But it means inviting it to be there just for a moment
Not trying to immediately push it away or fix it just allowing the feeling to exist like okay guilt you consider her first ic okay allowing it you curiosity yes getting curious about its origins ask curiiohum
What part of me is feeling like a bad friend
Right now what is this guilt trying to protect me from
Maybe it's trying to protect her from perceived rejection or disapproval
Um trying to understand its
Its unction masense they embrace embracing that protective part of herself acknowledging its positive intention
Even if it's strategy guilt tripping her into saying yes isn't helpful
Right now it's like saying okay i see you're trying to keep me safe for like to thank you for trying
It's about self compassion that sounds really kind to oneself and finally return returning to the present moment
Maybe focusing on her breath for a few seconds feeling her feet on the ground gently bring herself back from the internal storm to the here and now
So the whole niceer process it creates a pause
Doesn't it precisely it creates a conscious pause
A space between the trigger
The invite
The guilp and the response
And in that space
You can choose how to respond more conscisly rather than just automatically reacting from that old place of ooool
Those in grained patterns
It's like actively disengaging from the automatic piloot a great way way to put it okay
That nicicer tool seems really useful
And it feels like a connect directly to the next big challenge for people
People plaasers yeh boundaries absolutely their deeply connected
That pause nicer creates is often essential for even recognizing the need for a boundary lealone setting one one jojosephson reframes boundaries in a really interesting way doesn't she
She pushes back against the idea that they're just walls
Yes exactly instead of seeing them as rigid may be robotic and stiff walls that shut people out
She presents boundaries as bridges not walls
Bridge is not walls like that yeah
The ideas that healthy is actually create the necessary space for sustainable genuine connections to thrive they make connections safer and more possible long term
Which is kind of the opposite of how many people pleasers view them right by boundaries or selfish mean
Totally that's a huge turural
So this reframe is critical setting a boundary isn't inherently unan judce son argues it actually rooted in compassion
Compassion
How so she defines compassion as a sensitivity to suffering of self and others with the commitment to try to alleviate and prevent it
And crucially that includes sensitivity to the suffering of self
We need to be committed to alleviating and preventing our own suffering to not just everyone elseuah i see so setting a boundary prevents are suffering from burnout presentment set set up precisely and as the source powerfully states empathy without boundaries can easily become self betrayal
Wow
See you that again
Empathy without boundaries can easily become self betrayal
Yeah
It hits hard
Doesn't it
You simply cannot be truly sustainably compassionate or empathetic towards others
If we are consent abandoning ourselves
Betraining our own needs in the process
That makes so much sense
It reframes boundis completely not as selfish
But is necessary for genuine empathy and connection
Exactly it's about protecting the relationship and yourself within it so connection remains possible
And that concept of self betrayal
It makes me think about those small everyday moments
Where we might inadverttly abandoned ourselves
Joseph think is an example right about apologies
Yes
嗯
It's such a simple but powerful one
When someone apologizes to us for something
What's the typical reflects ve response for many people
Ah
No worries or yeah
It's okay or it's totally fright right even if it wasn't totally ine
Jojusson susuggests that a simple boundary and act of self balidation could be just ying
Thank you
Just thank you
Yeah
Thank you for the apology
It acknowleddes their words without immediately dismissing your own experience or minimiing the impact
Their action tad think no worries implicitly tells them and yourself that your feelings didn't matter
Or that their action had no negative effect
Um that's subtle
But yeah
Yeah
Ah can see that
That shift evalidates tes your own experience just a little bit more exactly whawhathe deeper impact of these seemingly small acts of self validation like saying thank you
Instead of no worries
Well basase somewhat you said it must start to rebuild self trust
Bingo
It starts to rebuild that crucial muscle of self trust
Which leads us to a really important question
How do we build the self trust
Needed to set these boundaries whether bigger
Small and more broadly to just listen to our own inner voice after potentially years of funding and looking ouward yah
Because funding seems intrinsically linked to relying on external validation right
Always looking outside for approval for queues on how to be
How to feel
Precisely constantly seeking approval from others to feel okay
To feel good enough
To feel safe
嗯
So to counter this deep seated pattern
Jerptson suggests building self trust intentionally like strengthening any other muscle start small be consistent okay
How do we start small
Her core advices in tifully simple ask yourself
What do i think of this before you immediately seek others opinions or input before asking anyone else yes create that internal check in moment for she uses that example trying on close ray
Yes it's perfect
You're trying on a new shirt in the dressing room
What's the impulse for many of us
Whwhaout the phphes es premiyourself he 's sended to four friends
What he guess then year or i
I've definitely done you too so josephson encourages you before you even reach for the phone to just papatake take brebreath and the
The irror and genuinely ask yourself
Do i like it
How do i feel wearing this
Does it feel like me okay
So it's not necessarily about never asking friends not at all getting input can be great
But it's about making that initial pause to consult yourself first that small act repeated over time strengthens the connection to your own preferences
Your own judgment
It's a little microactive of ofphrclamation
Each time reclaiming ing your own opinion
First
Like that exactly and just as vital for cultivating that self trust
She really emphasizes prioritizing quality alone time
Quality alone time okay
Why is that so important in this context
Well think about our world
Now it's incredibly noisy isn't
It were consistantly connected
Bombarded with external input
Social media feeds
Nezzalerds
Emails
Texts
Other people's opinions
Other people's needs
It's relendless
Sometimes it really is so into tentionally giving ourselves
Ves moments or even stretches of time to disconnect from all that external noise
It allows us to actually hear our own inner voice again to tune out the static precisely to separate our own thoughts
Feelings and needs from everyone else's expectations
Criticisms or demands
Justice and talks about reconnecting with the person
You are
When you're not being perceived
Oh
When you're not being perceived
That's powerful isn't
It that space where you can just be without any pressure to perform please or manage anyone else's experience just you with yourself
And this doesn't have to be like a week long silent retreat read at all
It could be five minutes of quiet sitting in your car before going into an appointment
It could be putting your phone on silent for an hour in the evening
It could be a walk in nature without headphones a weekend afternoon on reading book
Ook whaver ver alws you that interspments to disconnect externally to reconnect interternally
Those intentional moments are crucial
Then for figuring out what we actually need an desire separate from the shidds expectations
Exactly it's foundational for building self trust and being able to set those authentic boundaries later
Wow Okay
We've really covered a lot of ground today from uh understanding that deeply ingrained funn response in how it manifests in those protective roles
The peacekeeper
The perfectionist
The caretaker
Architypes to exploring the power of really practical tools like nicer from agagdifficult emotions in the moment
Yeh Yeah
And then redefining boundaries
These compassionate bridges not walls and finally importortof actively cultivating that vital muscle of self pressed through internal chekens and quality loan time
Yeah
It's quite a journey
Shellles it really is a journey of recognizing
That these patterns
These roles
These ways are being that once kept us safe
And we're probably brilliant adaptations by our younger selves
Absolutely they served a purpose
They really did
But now they may be suddenly or maybe not so suddenly
Holding us back from living a truly authentic fufilillife life from feeling genuinely connected
And it's important to remember that proving truth
Joseps and shares and book
Pain travels through families
Until someone is ready to face it
Um it gives me chilles
Pain travels through families
Until someone is ready to face it
Yeah
So when we embark on this healing work for ourselves
When we choose to lean into that discomfort
Learn these new tools
Make these shifts
对对对
We're not just changing our own individual pattern
It's bigger than just us much bigger
We're creating this powerful ripple effect
Were potentially breaking cycles
That may have existed in our families for generations
We're acknowledging all those generations of silence needs perhaps and in doing
So we're contributing to building a world
Where it feels just a little bit safer for everyone to be authentically themselves not just for us
But for those who come after us too
Our healing has collective implications
That's a really motivating perspective
It's not just self help
It's potentially generational healing in a very real way
Yes so as you listening
Maybe embark on this journey or continue on it
Josephson's message seems to be release that pressure to be perfect in your healing
Oh
Definitely perfectiontionism is often part of the original pattern right good point
So there's no finish line year no gold star for getting it right all the time
The progress is the noticing
Noticing when you slip back into those old patterns
That awareness sses the win that pause that moment of compassion at self observation
嗯
That's the real work
It's about having the courage maybe just to be with the discomfort sometimes and show ing compassion to those parts of yourself of the peacekeeper the perfection is the caretaker that maybe have been exoilred or start for acceptance for so long beautifully put it's about welcoming all this parts back home
You're healing supports the collective
That's a powerful thought to end on that's poactive self validation today may be inspired by icicer or the boundary insighsomething
Something practice ce something to consider thanks for winning us on this deep dive
We really appreciate you being here
And exploring these ideas with us see the next episode
