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嗯
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And victoria gotten from
And then they were none
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我是麦昆
无人生还是西区最负盛名的侦探剧之一
这次的中国巡演会来到十三个城市进行六十九场演出
不但采用原著结局
更是原汁原味的西区原卡
我们在上海采访到了中方的制作人boris
以及同为阿婆铁粉的副导演victoria garner
下面为大家介绍一下本剧的基本信息
本剧的作者是大家非常喜爱的阿婆arata christie
导演是伦敦西区著名的导演lucy beilly
演员都是西区原卡
演出时长一百四十分钟
含二十分钟的中场休息
英文演出
中文字幕
演出的日期
嗯
我看的这场演出是在二零二四年的五月二十六日
在苏州文化中心的大剧院
那接下来呢
也会在成都
陕西 北京 天津
宁波 南京 广州
泉州和南昌继续为大家巡演
欢迎大家一起登岛
那接下来就是我们的访谈环节
对于中国观众来讲
中文版也已经演了有七百场了
大家都十七年里了呢
对非常的熟悉这个戏
所以这次怎么想到说要把它从戏曲来引进过来的
从我的角度来说
因为其实原版话剧他们来的比较少
嗯
因为无论从我刚讲的就制作端来说
就他就是在英国play how 就七百作
然后就不带麦的
就英国的这种方式
嗯
那我觉得就是目前我觉得可能这对于大ip 来说可能是一个比较有意思的尝试吧
所以我也想看看到底有没有可能性把原版的话剧这样带过来
那当然 呃
俄露c 贝利
他比较厉害是他作为女导演
就是他可能是西区在做话剧导演里面名列前茅
而且他是以严厉为称的
但对于英文版的控方证人来说
我就观察观察到他的作品了
那其实这个戏剧家现在还在戏剧入场是大概三四年了吧
至少
那我觉得 哎
他刚好出了无人生还这个项目
然后我觉得我去看了
我也去英国看了
嗯
我觉得第一个演员太好了
因
因为这是阿婆他其实自己写的
是英国人在一战跟二战中间的鼓声
但是由英国人来表演和演绎
我觉得可能是最能够原支原位反映阿婆的意图和他想法的
所以那个时候我觉得哎
好像可以去做这件事情
因为 呃 当然
我觉得我们跟中版的哺乳期
呃
就包括无人生活居做也关系都非常好
他们也都会来看
嗯
但是我觉得就是说
呃
因为他们是比较以
包括舞美也来说
他们其实比较以房间来为主
但是ucb 他有很多的想法
就是他觉得现在
呃
世界上其实都是以一个比较动荡的一个状态
然后包括他如何把自然因素加在里面
然后如何加他自己的一个一个解读
包括其实上半场他是其实砍了十分钟左右
但是我觉得他上半场砍十分钟是有他的道理
就是你丝毫看不出砍完之后是有一些突兀或怎么样
所以我觉得最这一版新版其实我自己个人非常非常喜欢的一个版本啊
他的一些要求也好
他的一些呈呈现的方式也好
我觉得其实都是有创新的
魏志英刚才也提到说这个小说诞生在一战和二战中间
它是一个比较动荡的一个时代
所以我们也把它称为说是侦探小说的一个黄金年代
当然这本小说应运而生是有自己的一个时代背景在里面的
所以在现在这个时候
它带给我们所有观众一个什么样的跟时代相呼应的一个感受
我们觉得
嗯
我觉得挺有意思的是
嗯 第一个
一战和二战的时候是一个变革的时期
那现在我觉得无论是科技界
或者说现在还在打涨上中东
所以我觉得现在其实也是一个变革的时期
尤其是 呃
国家也好
整个环境也好
包括卢斯贝利在排的时候
他特地强调了
呃 气候变化
那
那我觉得这块是挺有意思的
就是你虽然看到这个小说
但是最终你还是我觉得他更深的探索了人性对于自己阴暗面和环境的变化
因为等于说这十个人是互相不知道的
并且随着一个设定的环境跟情景
他们怎么样的一个反馈
所以我觉得这个还是跟现在的观众
呃 挺贴切的
第二个我觉得比较有意思是说
还是回到了如何原汁原味把阿婆汤当时写出来的时候他的意图给表达出来
那他的意图
我觉得他是反战的
对
他不想有战争啊
但是作为一个作者
他又很敏锐的关关注到了现在目前的情况
所以他其实是希望能够更加呼喊大家对于人性也好
周围的人也好
你自己的秘密也好
因为国那个时候要讲嘛
国家也有秘密啊
每个人都有自己的想法
所以我觉得这个其实是蛮普遍的一个一个情况
到现在还是都存在的
那第三个我觉得
嗯
比较好玩的是
就我说的好玩是
嗯
因为你作为艺术作品
你是脱离于现实的
但是你又高于现实
所以在这个作品我能够感觉到它其实有很多自己戏谑的成分
其实很多的时候因为悬疑的小说有的时候会非常严肃
但是其实也可以有英式的笑话和你自己对于人生也好
就是一些嘲笑
或者在就就他们在英国真正上半场可能是很多很多很好的笑话是在里面的
当然在国内
因为大家都在想谁是凶手
或者 或者 哎
到底结果是怎么样
呃呃
怎么讲呢
就是这三点吧
我觉得还是蛮有意思的
就是说他并没有很多脱离于二战的一个环境
但其实它是还蛮切合现在的一个
并且就我一直一直听到ucb 在排练的时候就讲说我们怎么样把当时那个阿婆他的real intention 他真正的想要表达的东西给做出来
只是用一种现在的解读的方式
所以我刚讲就他的家具是非常现代的啊
但是他这个故事其实情节是你非常熟悉的啊
对
因为听刚才这个说法
我想到说啊
是不是因为像当时说战争时期人心惶惶
到现在他讲到说不管是气候啊还是局势啊
都是有一种类似像这样的感觉
像在这样的一个时代当中啊
人性当中的恶会更加多的被释放出来呢
所以说大家要更加多的去反思
更加去探索自己内心是不是有这样的一种感觉
这个可能大家进剧场看有自己的想法
但我觉得他能告诉你
呃
你可以放飞自己
但是你有cost
那这个成本是什么
你要想清楚
并且你的cost 对其他人是有有有代价的
跟对你自己也是有代价的
因为 呃
我个人觉得啦
就是虽然就他的层次其实并不简单于说一个善有善报恶有恶报的情况
他因为法官看起来他是他是代替天三千道
但是他自己也付出了代价
对
但是他自己有自己痛苦的东西
所以他可能是在更深层次的说是
哦 好
那如果你这么做了
那后面的代价什么
那你要愿意这么做吗
他更多是让他自己去反问自己这样的一个情况
所以包括我觉得特别有意思的
我 我
我可以透露一下
就是演员他们在演这个戏是不容易的
嗯
因为他们需要把自己阴暗的一面或者邪恶的一面叠燃的
但是是在舞台上控制的
但是你又不能发疯
能懂我意思吗
所以他是需要在一个切换的一个点
他在角色中间就是
但是因为演员他需要去共情
所以他必须要了解到这些阴暗的地方
并且他要去控制这个地方
这些些员都是rnc 啊
Nt 啊或者suspect 的演员
所以 嗯
他们的表演我真的可以用入木三分吧
就是挺厉害的啊
就他们能够演到这个层度
就不是吓人
不是惊悚
但是有再往下几个层次你可以想得到
哦
原来是这样子的
你知道吗
对
因为之前我们就我自己有时候也演戏
然后也会自己导一些我们民间巨社的戏
就我们很害怕说啊
让这个演员在台上死去
因为这段好像是会难度非常大
非常难排的一个
呃
对演员也非常有挑战
然后这次我们看到在台上有很多像这样的挑战
对对
因为 嗯 当然
其实死去是一个
呃 怎么讲
就在舞台上把一个死去是一个很大的一个
嗯嗯
怎么讲呢
就是一个很大的一个因素吧
或者很大的一个
呃
Dramatic moment
这是一个戏剧性的冲突性
第一
它需要有符合逻辑性
不然观众觉得啊
就因
因为你看现在很多观众他觉得就
就有的时候死恨的时候会觉得很好笑对吧
这个就
就笑率成的力为什么死啊
这个怎么样
他又
他有逻辑性
但他又符合剧情的发展
同时死去的时候他又必
必须有很多的
呃
环境的衬托也好
推动剧情发展也好
导致哪些后果呢
所以我觉得这一块
呃
我还是得讲到第一个是阿婆的剧本
他写的很好啊
就大家会觉得哎
就是就是就
就哎这个发生了
那大家可能脑只会想说
哦 为什么
Why who
就是会这样子问
另外一个我在想就是说对于这个版本来说
呃 因为很多
比如说你
你人就走了
但是他其实是通过音效
因为在西区的和英国学院的版本可能就二十几个音效吧
那我们这版可能有一百二十几个
嗯 对
就是第一个
我们是给到了很多建议说
因为中国观众比较喜欢惊悚的感觉
第二个就是说他的死去的部分
可能通过一些音效或者艺术性灯光的表达
让大家说哦
就是有一个空间让大家去想是谁去摸他
因为观众要给观众留白
否则观众就很急的啊
这个死了
那什么情况呢
就是
所以我觉得有一些音音乐部分
有音效部分
有灯光的部分
然后演员有一些特定的肢体的表达
然后让这个死去
相当于给大家留个空白
然后再继续进去
这个其实很高级的一个做法
如果你做的特别满的话
其实就有问题
那第二个我觉得lucy 做的比好
因为
嗯
就是很多的戏剧的东西
他的死特别会容易造成上下浮动
露西说他的觉得死是螺旋是往上升
就跟像发条越来越紧
越来越紧
就是你第一个死的程度是跟作死的是不一样的
是有intense 的情况
我觉得这个可能是他作为戏区的导演来说
他
他挺擅长的
第二个就是说你死不能用一种方式
或者用用同样的演员的表达方式在
因为大家会都会都
呃 尤
尤其十个人都死了
所以你想这四个人十个人的怎么样不同
其实挺有意思的
就是我也跟国内导演说
你们看英国导演是怎么样去处理这十个死亡的
其实挺有意思的就是节奏
表达方式跟人死了都怎么就出去
然后还有一个就是他是怎么样上上镜
其实这个是蛮有意思的啊
对
那我看到到有一个特别的设置啊
就 就是次次
比方说有些演员他死完之后
这个角色他会再起来
然后走掉 对
然后包括到最后所有的演员有一些死去的
除了写在最前面
他都会自动排成一排
这个设置当然也没有说明说类似像这样的设置是一个什么样的一个安排呢
嗯 第一个
我不想因为
因
因为这个问题
我的确没有跟导演讲我的理解是
呃
就好比我刚刚讲就是人就就就
就因为舞台的限制的原因
所以你 呃
死亡之后
你的演员上去是必须要处理这个一的一个情况
所以他我刚刚讲他刚刚用通通过各种音效啊这种方式来去处理完更刚好这个部分就是给观众留白的
到底是谁死的
然后是是用什么样杀的
我觉得这个是其实挺巧妙的
第二
你刚刚讲的后面站成一排
我觉得因为第一个站成一排
它是可以用用旋腕音的方式
大家随着剧情的发展的时候
其实有的时候为什么叫烧脑呢
就是你可能得往回倒一倒啊
那这有一样的作用
第二个作用呢
我自己观感中感觉就是说
因为他这样其实用用一种很有仪式性的方式来告诉大家说目前的状态和情况是什么样子的
这个是个舞台表达性方面的一个挺有意思
因为他刚开始的时候人也站在台前
但死了之后
他后面也是站在
站在台后面
那一个前一个后
对
所以我觉得他其实是有很多的想法在怎么样去表达死亡
表达这个紧张感
表达这个故事
他是是这么去处理的啊
他有没有可能是一个观众挑战环节
就是这时候让后面所有人都站起来看
哦
前面这个死了
刚死的
那么你觉得是哪个人杀的
呃
我觉得这些留白可能给观众去回答吧
但是我觉得导演很聪明一点
就是说他什么时候让大家站成一排
呃
就欧布丁number 的时候
开场的时候其实是把角色的一部分已经介绍给大家了
嗯 对
那么到后面其实他
呃
站在一排的时候
并不是结尾三到四个人左右吧
对
那他那个时候他是一个节奏的问题
因为你想你不能一枪毙掉
第二枪毙掉
那就 就
其实就挺无聊的
对对
还是一个你用不同的方式来展现这个节奏的问题
是的 对
所以我觉得这个还是蛮高
因为刚刚麦克讲了
就是很多时候不得排个业语版本
就是啊
就死掉了就结束了啊
你死掉就结束了
就其实挺boring 的
但是我觉得他下半场非常精彩
就下半场尤其精彩啊
是
那刚才你也提到
就是上面场他删了很多
包括有一些像英国的一些笑话啦
可能说我们这里的观众没有办法去很快的去了解到
其实挺可惜的
因为当中有一个梗
比方说法官的名字啊
他就world grave 嘛
对吧
这是一个特别为他这个角色所设置的这个名字
但是像类似像这样的环节
就如果说不是援著读者的话
其实作为中国观众是比较难以去了解的一些部分
就他可能删个十分钟左右的
到有可能是像这样的细节
但我觉得主要还是基于剧本跟舞台的表达的方式的问题
因为的确比较长啊
所以我觉得ucb 比较厉害的点就是我们怎么样做一个制作是适合更加让现在观众更容易去去理解的
探所
我觉得最早他的的intention 的部分
嗯 对
所以我觉得这个也是蛮有意思的
然后其实上半场他是有宣布他们犯下的的罪证的部分
并且其实上场应该是有一个谋杀其实在上半场已经发生了
是的 对
所以我觉得
嗯
就是这个节奏和这一个内容吧
我觉得其实也是蛮有意思的
就是说 嗯
其实他还是比较遵循他原著的一个节奏的部分
就他没有做特别大的的更改
包括你也知道
因为像英国很多的的一个导演或者编剧
他们会可能像vicky 这样
这样turn around 他
他可能会用特别前沿的方式表达方式
比如说舞台
他可能就
就我随便举个例子啊
可能是特别夸张的
或者全透明的什么什么之类的
他做一些其他的一些变化
那我觉得他没有
他还是比较忠遵从于援著的
对
但是以一种比较经典的方式来呈现这个戏
对对对
就他有他的角度
但是他的intention 还是以经典的东西
他没有去反叛
没有去批判
因为像英国有很很多是批判这个东西
对
当然他也有一些变化
比如说管家在原著中一男一女
对
但在英国中间其实他是是是
包括这次群员是两女的
对
但其实他们两个人是是其在英国的台上是有亲嘴的啊
就他埋了很多很多这样的东西啊
但是这里就把这个删掉了
我们 嗯
因为报批过其他原因就是我们不能多说什么
但是我他们的举止你能看得出的啊
我我
我也不想把这个给完全给抹掉
明白
但是其实他有做这样类似百分之十或者二十的他的一些新的解读
其实
其实很深的
是的 对
因为他们就做话剧
我觉得英国人有哈士比
有 有
就他们其实是
就是即石是在那个地方
对对
包括你看kitty
嗯
那个演那个谁的
他其实获过what some stage 跟嗯嗯
奥 奥利弗奖 嗯
对
然后包括他自己对于一些弄东西的解读也是非常深刻的
是对
因为其实在演杀剧的时候也是这样
因为很多时候他并不去改他这个剧本的内容
但是在呈现形式式可以做非常多的不不的的改
对 嗯对对
你以以参一下我们的那个都不会越秀
要秀就越多了
Thank you nice
You meet you nice
Meet you so um um chchina ball begin shortly after the end of uk trour
So how do you feel the performance environment of the two countries is different
Because uh we just heard that ross the stage is different
So you change the stage move
Yeah
Yeah
So of course
Because everything here is so big big
We had to make the set much bigger
Which was quite exciting for the actors to susuddenly plain in in a very different space
And to adapt this space
Because of course the said is very very big
But were trying to convey the sense of an island and somewhere small
And
And have some isolation
And have a real atmosphere about it
So that was a bit
It a chchallengbut
But everyboy's embrred ed it really beautifully and um
Everybody is so excited to be here
I think the main difference is the people from the uk
It's exciting
Because you get to see different parts of the country
But it's still very familiar
But coming here
Everything is new and exciting
And
And different
And every city we've been going to
Has been so different
And it's just a real adventure for us
Yeah In uk
You don't
Don't
You 克风icright
No no no
In the uk
We project
Because of because it theit is a most of them quite old theatres
So they are built before microphones existed
So they then built in a way that the sound really travels really well
And of course all of our actors are incredibly you know gifted actors whohave worked with you know the global ii see in the national
And they have a lot of experience
So voice is such a core part of their training and the uproproject in big uk spaces
But of course these spaces are so big
That even the best train doctor in the world could not quite reach the the further stand of the circles
But so we do floers
Yes so they do we do
Have a bit of health
But of course they're all professionals and are sound um designers and engineers so talented
And the fking the show sound really really good
Yeah
Really good
So so
And the second one costs them i saw
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We just heard the answer
There right so i just want
Want to know perperonal answer
So which ending you prefer you like what you so
Oh
I much prefer this ending
I much prefer the grooce and ending
I think
I think there's something about it with these ten people and taking them off one by one in the constant pressure and
And finality of the soldiers is the first time
When angathcristy did it to take something that's supposed to be a children's ryan to take something that's fun and playful
And turn it into something very dark
Here's the first time
Any writer did that use that childitionness
And turned it into something psychologically really really pressured um so as they take off one by one
Of course there's also a an awful moment with two of them disappear at the same time
And everybody panicicum
Because that's not all the rule
What's the rule of the game
I'm
I'm much prefer the ending
Where you know everyone has sicked off
And there's something
There's something about it
That is so with the story really holds together
And
And you need that
You need that finality
I think to
To make this such an incredible piece of work
Yeah
Ah ah ah
So you are the reader for a gala acrristyeyes like her
Oh
I love her
I love her every christmas
I gift myself
And i knew i get that christian and hi readad i get that christan a christmas
Because i ditional myself and i which bii get the favstiite
My personal favorite is death on annil
I love it
I love it
Because i love egypt
And i think the story is just so it's what she doesn't it
She always mixes murder with love and with you know passion and these beautiful landscape es before she travelled the law
Yeah
She traveled a law
And she was such an adventurino for a woman of her time um and yeah
Just i loved this on a night
I'plying to put it on stastage
Not that
But
But luy y baey is that next that murder on the orienexpress
Oh
And next so rehearsals start for that in august
And i'll be
I'll be her associate again for that process
So that that
That we're really excited to because it's such a different play
And of course it's one of the eq powhole plays
Ers
But it's going to be
It's such a wonderful stories
So that's going to be quite fighting
Yes
Sounds very exciting so i 你在哪
哪儿我就是
What's your favorite on the car the on wonderful why
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But i am up game player um
So it's very structural story
You like you visit everyone
You think every possibility of it
And finally you
You get a big shock
Yes yes
Absolutely yeah
No 嗯
Relevance that a revival of series
Which begin in the golden age of uh coor dedectifichave have chineinese and british audience
What does the image of island means the audience
When it appear on the stage
Because it period of isolation in the world
I think lucy
Bailey was really really passionate stthis as well
Because it happens in nineteen
Nineteen because it happens in a world
That's on the cuast of of this awful wful second world war
And it's interesting as this island off the cost of devon is almost hanging out
Towards europe
Towards the continent
And what happens there in this liminal space is very
Is very open to the element
It's very suit
You know open to things going wrong
That's the problem with isolation is in there all these beaubeautiful stories about islalaanimal farm and robbson son crucial
And all these stories where people end up on a iisland separated from civilization and humans revert to a very primal state
That's for something that's really interesting
Something that's very scary and terrifying
And that's what we fascinated by as is what happens
When suddenne's civilization is not there anymore
And it's unaccessible
And it's removed from us
And we get a choice
Do we remain so alive 我就没给人了
To our instincts
And to something that's a point of us
But that we have been told this children how to present and hide
And vanania
It's just really really interesting
And of course i mean isolated is a strange thing
And again i know that lucy is fascinated by this story
Because it's so green
Because it's written a period in the worldare 这个是the carilist and things felt hopeless
Hello
She always compares it to the climate crisis
Where feels very hopeeless
It feels like
But not much we can do
But of course
There is of course
There is because you know we soldiering over that
If all the world groups their resources
We can solve anything
Humanity so advanced the same imazing ccreative 昨天
Here for her
It's
It's such
It's such a link to the sense of popelessses and isolated
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我要工作具体演见的这样就跳刷子
比如说是三个country
所以都this time for moment
三 三十米
你听我真的把
我听
对不起你
Exactly is beautiful metaphor
Because it's if we at any point all of these characters especially at the end
Which of course resulted in
In the alternative tive ding
If they trusted each other
And if they worked together
They would survive
They would be
They would be able to figure a way out
And they would survive
But of course they can't
They can't
Because the're so immost in their own problems and their own guilt
And their own fear
That they can never do that extra step and extend a hand
And actually trust someone
And asked the tragedy of it
Tragedy of it especially at the end
If
If they are in number trusdy each other
Yeah
Then they get out
It's
You know it's ending
Ending number two
Yeah
But of course
If they don't
That's
What it depends on
Is
Is trust um
So that's a really beautiful message
Yeah
Too yeah
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Sestem desking in the play that take place
That i take on the stage
So which is quite challenge for perform
Because i usually avoid that
When i am baratey
So
So how do conconsider and dewith with teams and so lissibabi
What's with the wonderful um fighting director called ronnickpeninky
So how is really wonderful
To see how she works with everyone
But especially with all the death scenes and so the fight director will offer some options and some solutions and some things that will appear good
Based on the effect that lucy wants to create
So she you know
She knows exactly what kind of story
She wants to tell with each death and how big each death has to be in how different
And then her colleagues really end the designer as well and and really just come together
And pull the resources to make it look believable
Right and plus we have the very first death
The very first death is very expensive and dramatic
And
And that took a lot of rehearsal with the movement director and the five director
So it's
It's a lot of preparation
And of course the last death is the most vctacular death before lost technically is the most spectacular
And that was its own completely different process
And was separate from the room
Sometimes to make sure
That all the safety parameters were in place to create this illusion that we blame with on stage
That needs to be scary enough for people to believe in
And you know some of my favorite moments is when i
What i watch ed show show lot lot
And then when when leave the the show some members of the audience
I can hear them
Talking to each other going
You think she's all right
She think theiris okay
It looks so scary
And i get owell we've done on job well
Because
Because it's really believable
How scary
It is yeah
But you got some interesting option for yes yes
Absolutely
And you end we worked with the company called suspending illusions to create there is moment
I don't know how much disployed it
And know but yeah
And that's
That's really a lot of work
But also it looks very good
So that the work is what i thing yeah
Because i thing thing in lovely
Yeah
And we
We saw some moments that got a laugh in audience
So how did team manage to fit the funny moment into the scary asstrluts of the shop
Yeah
I think you always need a release
Right you can
You can do the darkest play in the world
You know you can do even when you do my best there's a moment
Whether is a porter
There's a really funny sea
Yeah
And i think i get a christial
Also enjoys playing with that playing
Because everyone when you come to see
And i got the you
You
You know somebody's onna die
It might not be sooner
It might be later
But you know there's going to be a dark
You know experience
And you know that's going to be dead
Yeah
But there's also this wonderful british humor about it
And um it's really important
That the audience gets a bit of aa bit of a release
And a bit of a respite from all the constant death
Um
And that's what life is
Isn't It
It's up Ps
And wwns
Always
Always
And it's
It becomes almost so grow test this story
And it can
And you have to be careful
It could easily slip into something something sny
But of course we want the main story yland to be serious
And to be believe
Believe traumatic
But also the way life is sometimes you have the most serious moment
And
And you need to laugh
Because it's too much
经常吃的玩se feeling like the indiyour office theatre
Feeling right the very very direlay to the audience
And audience will in fiedvery 嗯嗯impimpacwell
I think this is lucy certainly always tries to aim
And
And the actors we work with always trying to aim for the truth
It's a word
We use a lot in a rehearsal room for something truthful
But of course the beauty of the exercises
That we have to portray these things
That none of us experience
None of us has killed someone
No
I don't think think very few of us have seen someone die in front of us
So it's
It's how do you portray that in a truthful manner
But you know give the stories some justice
Because some of these deaths so in your face and so ggroom m
And how as an actor as a director
How do you approach telling that story
So that the audience really believes in all of it by the end
哼
Thank you very much
Thank you much with family
Thank you
Thank you
馋猫猫戏险
谢谢
